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Post by sandypine on Oct 29, 2022 18:15:04 GMT
I was not aware of promises of sunny uplands and unicorns. I was very much aware of how disaster would be just round the corner, and despite many Remoaners best attempts to engineer such a disaster we have been faring on a par with much of the Eurozone over the last couple of years and in fact in some respects a bit better. The crux of the matter is would we be significantly better off if we had stayed in. Who knows? Gosh you have lowered your expectations, but I don't think you're alone in that. Huh? I do not believe I have ever said anything different. The whole point was to take back the electorates ability to change a government, not just its policies but its direction through the ballot box. Now we have that ability whether it can be effectively exercised and government's will be responsive is altogether another argument. What is important is the electorate can dump government. That is the electorate, not the electorates representatives, or the existing electorate's government. It is called the sovereignty of the people; sometimes it works poorly and ineffectively but at least it can work now. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 29, 2022 18:18:18 GMT
At the last gen election Jo Swinson led the Lib Dems on a rejoin the EU manifesto. I wonder how she's getting on with her knitting? Isn't it awful when you have to keep telling the same people the same thing. A form of madness. The reason the Tories won the 2019 election was not because 67% of the population suddenly decided they wanted Brexit. It was because 67% of the population feared Jeremy Corbyn gaining control of the country. You may be right, you may be wrong and it undoubtedly was a factor however you do not know to what extent. If a decision was made by a voter not to get Jeremy Corbyn then they had to vote for something else and that was to get Brexit done as a major policy of teh alternative they chose. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 29, 2022 18:22:49 GMT
If rejoining were as popular as you suggest then one of the major parties would be advocating that. However it seems that they are as suspicious of the accuracy of these polls (perhaps after getting bitten last time  ) as I am. Of course you are, its your worst nightmare. But every poll, every year the gap gets bigger. I wont be ignored for much longer. I think Labour will take us back in without a referendum, but simply by closer ties, matching regulations and trade deals. Everything bar FoM. Which is what we could have had without all the pain of Brexit. Could we, any limitation was time limited and we would be coming to the end of that limitation sometime early next year if I recall. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2022 18:24:54 GMT
Rubber Band is that you?!!!  exactly, no answer. Ah. So, you're saying you're not Rubber Band. Fair enough. But why were you expecting an answer from me -- you made a statement; you did not ask a question? |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 29, 2022 18:25:31 GMT
You have a vivid imagination. Have you considered posting on the writing thread? Meanwhile the polls tell a more accurate story. How sweet of you to offer.
I don't know why you're repeating the same thing. I am only going to give the same response:
But I have no choice when you keep giving the wrong answer Or those of us living in the real world who knew the reason we have immigration is not bureaucrats in the EU but our own governments reluctance to charge sufficient tax and need to subsidise it by constantly increasing the population. We knew leaving the EU would not stop immigration, seems we were right on that as well.  Is that right, what are the questions asked, assuming you know and aren't just floundering around. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 29, 2022 18:28:30 GMT
Of course you are, its your worst nightmare. But every poll, every year the gap gets bigger. I wont be ignored for much longer. I think Labour will take us back in without a referendum, but simply by closer ties, matching regulations and trade deals. Everything bar FoM. Which is what we could have had without all the pain of Brexit. Could we, any limitation was time limited and we would be coming to the end of that limitation sometime early next year if I recall. The EU is always happy with a fudge, they'd find a way to make it work. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2022 18:29:56 GMT
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Post by sandypine on Oct 29, 2022 18:35:36 GMT
Could we, any limitation was time limited and we would be coming to the end of that limitation sometime early next year if I recall. The EU is always happy with a fudge, they'd find a way to make it work. Perhaps that is the problem, fudging the issues is not dealing with the issues and they only work partially and intermittently. It also seems to be why many options of efta and regulatory alignment are proposed as they fudge leaving. When will you realise it is this EU that is the problem, not any EU. It has been set up from the top down to limit the power of the people and present an illusion of a democratic organisation where real power lies in the political class with as little effective interference from the hoi polloi as possible. |
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Post by sheepy on Oct 29, 2022 18:45:39 GMT
Ah. So, you're saying you're not Rubber Band. Fair enough. But why were you expecting an answer from me -- you made a statement; you did not ask a question? So, are you now willing to get behind the majority of voters and back a majority decision or be led by the nose and follow every political decision that makes you feel hard done by? because there will tens of thousands of them, EU or no EU the only difference is once Brussels has control you have no comeback. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2022 18:51:54 GMT
Ah. So, you're saying you're not Rubber Band. Fair enough. But why were you expecting an answer from me -- you made a statement; you did not ask a question? So, are you now willing to get behind the majority of voters and back a majority decision or be led by the nose and follow every political decision that makes you feel hard done by? because there will tens of thousands of them, EU or no EU the only difference is once Brussels has control you have no comeback. Huh? What do you mean exactly by "be led by the nose and follow every political decision that makes you feel hard done by?"Are you simply asking me if I am now willing to support BJ's Brexit or support rejoining the EU? |
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Post by sheepy on Oct 29, 2022 18:55:46 GMT
So, are you now willing to get behind the majority of voters and back a majority decision or be led by the nose and follow every political decision that makes you feel hard done by? because there will tens of thousands of them, EU or no EU the only difference is once Brussels has control you have no comeback. Huh? What do you mean exactly by "be led by the nose and follow every political decision that makes you feel hard done by?"What I said, will you follow democracy now or not? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2022 19:03:25 GMT
Huh? What do you mean exactly by "be led by the nose and follow every political decision that makes you feel hard done by?"What I said, will you follow democracy now or not? Oh. I've always followed democracy. |
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Post by sheepy on Oct 29, 2022 19:07:03 GMT
What I said, will you follow democracy now or not? Oh. I've always followed democracy. So, you accept, that a majority voted to leave the EU and accept that and from now on will back them even if it wasn't what you personally wanted as a result? Because that is democracy, you had your say and were voted down by a majority on the day. That way democracy thrives. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 29, 2022 19:19:25 GMT
Yes, that's the one I was playing on. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2022 19:20:46 GMT
Oh. I've always followed democracy. So, you accept, that a majority voted to leave the EU and accept that and from now on will back them even if it wasn't what you personally wanted as a result? Because that is democracy, you had your say and were voted down by a majority on the day. That way democracy thrives. Of course, I do. And of course, I don't. Bear in mind that acceptance of the result does not mean forfeiture of the right to voice one's opposing opinion -- or indeed, the right to attempt to reverse an electoral decision as long as it is done by way of a lawful, democratic process. It is not undemocratic to wish to reverse Brexit. And neither is it undemocratic to find lawful, democratic ways (like demonstrations, like use of media) to reverse Brexit. |
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) as I am.
