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Post by Pacifico on Jun 21, 2023 17:06:44 GMT
I wonder if England being about the most densely populated major country in Europe might have something to do with the publics resistance to concreting over everything. Its because we made ourselves the most crowded country in Europe that we need the housing. But feel free to exaggerate. I'll stick to facts. 4 million new houses (not even just flats) takes 1% of our arable land. So probably don't need to concrete over all of it. Unless they all want very big drives. 😂 🤣 Oh - Zany resurrects his favourite ponzi scheme..  Keep importing migrants and thus we need to build more to solve the housing shortage.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 17:07:33 GMT
View AttachmentTheres nothing better to back up any argument than EVIDENCE If anyone cares to look at the chart, you can very clearly see that council house building fell off the edge of a cliff as soon as Margaret Thatchers government came to power. No government since has a worse record than Margaret Thatcher
Apart from the Blair/Brown era... They of course introduced the double whammy - they slashed housebuilding and unleashed mass immigration.. which (unsurprisingly) led to a house prices shooting off into the stratosphere. By far the largest ever surge of migration into this country was as a result of a Conservative government, I dont know how many times I need to repeat this fact. The two British signatures on The Maastricht Treaty are Douglas Hurd and Francis Maude, the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for Europe. Immigration rose sharply when the treaty became law and under a Conservative government; Immigration rose sharply again after the EU10 were admitted to the EU in 2004, but as a result of the treaty. The overwhelming majority of European migrant workers did not go into public sector housing, mainly because they couldn't, because the law does not allow for newly arrived migrants to jump housing waiting lists. Almost all European migrant workers went into private rented accommodation, most were on Minimum Wage, therefore there cannot be any connection between the overheating private housing sector at that time and migrants, there was no correlation. The overheating private housing market was mostly as a result of a strong economy, sustained growth, and rising living standards year after year under Tony Blair - how different things are today. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 21, 2023 17:10:43 GMT
The Conservatives agreed that making the Bank Of England independent was the right thing to do, and at no time have they suggested that our central bank should be brought back under the control of the treasury. There has been no strategic planning, if your population grows, you build more houses, strange that theres no housing crisis in Germany or France. If your population grows naturally by fertility rate + immigration, then you can plan, as most countries do. How do you think nations with much larger immigration rates manage or cope, like Canada for example. ? council house building almost came to a sudden halt when Thatcher came to office ... why ? Yes it is true that Blair and Brown did little to remedy the problem But it is today a Conservative government which is overseeing a housing crisis, they have been in charge since 2010, and there is not enough social housing, and no where near enough either been built or planned. Their proposal for solving the crisis is always low cost houses for sale, and it is not working. We are not debating the history of social housing, we are debating todays housing crisis France has more room than we have, 643,80 thousand square Kilometres., Germany 357,59 thousand square Kilometres the UK just under 133, 000 thousand Kilometres, you cannot get a quart into a pint pot, yes build more thousands thousands of them, then build the roads to get to them , public transport hubs, schools, hospitals etc etc, then build places for them to work in So what would you do with the millions of young people needing homes? Bemoaning your country is overcrowded cures nothing. You might moan your wife shouldn't have got pregnant a second time but you still need a third bedroom. In any case the UK has 243,000 square Kilometers of which 19,440 square Kilometers is built on including roads. So we might get a quart into a swimming pool. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 21, 2023 17:12:06 GMT
Whereas the Boris and the Tories really clamped down immigration. Dear oh dear its like being fed lines. You are about to become owned again. Ooh look its popup bully with more vacuous statements. Hooray. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 21, 2023 17:14:02 GMT
Its because we made ourselves the most crowded country in Europe that we need the housing. But feel free to exaggerate. I'll stick to facts. 4 million new houses (not even just flats) takes 1% of our arable land. So probably don't need to concrete over all of it. Unless they all want very big drives. 😂 🤣 Oh - Zany resurrects his favourite ponzi scheme.. Keep importing migrants and thus we need to build more to solve the housing shortage.. Liar. I never mentioned importing migrants. I am against immigration. I am talking about the current needs. The ones you refuse to even acknowledge need homes. |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 21, 2023 17:16:09 GMT
And what a mistake that was. Also, abolishing the TESSA savings account, selling off our gold at rock bottom prices, deflating other savings and investment options and basically leaving bricks and mortar as the only choice for investments, was INSANE. Immigrants require housing, same as everyone else. Seasonal workers, coming here for short term work, did not buy, but rented. This pushed up rental prices. The Conservatives agreed that making the Bank Of England independent was the right thing to do, and at no time have they suggested that our central bank should be brought back under the control of the treasury. There has been no strategic planning, if your population grows, you build more houses, strange that theres no housing crisis in Germany or France. If your population grows naturally by fertility rate + immigration, then you can plan, as most countries do. How do you think nations with much larger immigration rates manage or cope, like Canada for example. ? council house building almost came to a sudden halt when Thatcher came to office ... why ? Yes it is true that Blair and Brown did little to remedy the problem But it is today a Conservative government which is overseeing a housing crisis, they have been in charge since 2010, and there is not enough social housing, and no where near enough either been built or planned. Their proposal for solving the crisis is always low cost houses for sale, and it is not working. We are not debating the history of social housing, we are debating todays housing crisis We have a housing crisis because our politicians on both sides of the commons, are crap. For decades they've done fuck all to provide decent savings options, and so those with money buy houses as investments. PEPs (Personal Equity Plans) and TESSAs (Tax Exempt Special Savings Accounts) were replaced in 1999 with shitty ISAs which were far less attractive. Decent savings options other than housing, dried up. To overcome the housing crisis, we must go back to an era of high interest savings accounts, with tax exempt high interest options on the table for savers. Whatever the highest interest rate on a loan offered by a bank is, they must offer an interest rate not less than 1 quarter of that rate, to savers. High levels of personal debt must be discouraged, should be subject to a 5% tax, any interest rate above 30% should be subject to a 15% tax. Credit, must be affordable. There have to be limits placed on what an individual may borrow on credit cards / loans. Mortgages must be affordable. Houses must be affordable. If that means I am worse off, so be it. We need to build lots of new housing, both private and social. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 21, 2023 17:17:23 GMT
Oh - Zany resurrects his favourite ponzi scheme.. Keep importing migrants and thus we need to build more to solve the housing shortage.. Liar. I never mentioned importing migrants. I am against immigration. I am talking about the current needs. The ones you refuse to even acknowledge need homes. Where have I failed to acknowledge that our indigenous citizens do not require homes FFS? |
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Post by Vinny on Jun 21, 2023 17:20:18 GMT
No it didn't. In August 2007 there was an enormous bust. Northern Rock collapsed things went from bad to worse and the state ended up bailing out loads of banks. And, if the Bank of England having control of inflation actually prevented boom and bust in practice, we'd have no economic problems right now. Would we? One of the problems with giving the Bank of England "control" is that it resulted in an overvalued pound, reduced exports, increased imports, higher unemployment and INFLATION. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 21, 2023 17:24:32 GMT
Apart from the Blair/Brown era... They of course introduced the double whammy - they slashed housebuilding and unleashed mass immigration.. which (unsurprisingly) led to a house prices shooting off into the stratosphere. By far the largest ever surge of migration into this country was as a result of a Conservative government, I dont know how many times I need to repeat this fact. The two British signatures on The Maastricht Treaty are Douglas Hurd and Francis Maude, the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for Europe. Immigration rose sharply when the treaty became law and under a Conservative government; Immigration rose sharply again after the EU10 were admitted to the EU in 2004, but as a result of the treaty. Which Labour decided to let in - other countries were more circumspect. Yes - and the failure of Labour to build housing. Lets have some facts rather than your rhetoric. The best year under Thatcher 242,000 houses were built - Labours best year was 223,000 The worst year under Thatcher 182,000 houses were built - Labours worst year was 157,000 Thatcher left office with 202,000 built in her last year - Labour left office with 135,000. So as I said - Labour built less housing and open the floodgates to mass migration.. Job done.. [/quote] |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 21, 2023 17:26:03 GMT
The Conservatives agreed that making the Bank Of England independent was the right thing to do, and at no time have they suggested that our central bank should be brought back under the control of the treasury. There has been no strategic planning, if your population grows, you build more houses, strange that theres no housing crisis in Germany or France. If your population grows naturally by fertility rate + immigration, then you can plan, as most countries do. How do you think nations with much larger immigration rates manage or cope, like Canada for example. ? council house building almost came to a sudden halt when Thatcher came to office ... why ? Yes it is true that Blair and Brown did little to remedy the problem But it is today a Conservative government which is overseeing a housing crisis, they have been in charge since 2010, and there is not enough social housing, and no where near enough either been built or planned. Their proposal for solving the crisis is always low cost houses for sale, and it is not working. We are not debating the history of social housing, we are debating todays housing crisis We have a housing crisis because our politicians on both sides of the commons, are crap. For decades they've done fuck all to provide decent savings options, and so those with money buy houses as investments. PEPs (Personal Equity Plans) and TESSAs (Tax Exempt Special Savings Accounts) were replaced in 1999 with shitty ISAs which were far less attractive. Decent savings options other than housing, dried up. To overcome the housing crisis, we must go back to an era of high interest savings accounts, with tax exempt high interest options on the table for savers. Whatever the highest interest rate on a loan offered by a bank is, they must offer an interest rate not less than 1 quarter of that rate, to savers. High levels of personal debt must be discouraged, should be subject to a 5% tax, any interest rate above 30% should be subject to a 15% tax. Credit, must be affordable. There have to be limits placed on what an individual may borrow on credit cards / loans. Mortgages must be affordable. Houses must be affordable. If that means I am worse off, so be it. We need to build lots of new housing, both private and social. Whilst I agree with you on Tessa's etc. It doesn't explain the housing shortage. If the wealthy have transferred there saving to bricks and mortar there would still be enough homes, they would just be rented instead of bought. The reason rents are so massively high is because there aren't enough houses available to rent or buy. |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 21, 2023 17:26:49 GMT
Liar. I never mentioned importing migrants. I am against immigration. I am talking about the current needs. The ones you refuse to even acknowledge need homes. Where have I failed to acknowledge that our indigenous citizens do not require homes FFS? Learn to read FFS. The post was not addressed to you. |
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Post by jonksy on Jun 21, 2023 17:29:17 GMT
Where have I failed to acknowledge that our indigenous citizens do not require homes FFS? Learn to read FFS. The post was not addressed to you. I do know how to read and you tar us who oppose your views with the same brush. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jun 21, 2023 17:30:51 GMT
Oh - Zany resurrects his favourite ponzi scheme.. Keep importing migrants and thus we need to build more to solve the housing shortage.. Liar. I never mentioned importing migrants. I am against immigration. I am talking about the current needs. The ones you refuse to even acknowledge need homes. So why do you keep telling me we need to import workers on cheap wages for all those companies that cannot survive if they pay the going rate? |
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Post by zanygame on Jun 21, 2023 17:32:28 GMT
By far the largest ever surge of migration into this country was as a result of a Conservative government, I dont know how many times I need to repeat this fact. The two British signatures on The Maastricht Treaty are Douglas Hurd and Francis Maude, the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for Europe. Immigration rose sharply when the treaty became law and under a Conservative government; Immigration rose sharply again after the EU10 were admitted to the EU in 2004, but as a result of the treaty. Which Labour decided to let in - other countries were more circumspect. Yes - and the failure of Labour to build housing. Lets have some facts rather than your rhetoric. The best year under Thatcher 242,000 houses were built - Labours best year was 223,000 The worst year under Thatcher 182,000 houses were built - Labours worst year was 157,000 Thatcher left office with 202,000 built in her last year - Labour left office with 135,000. So as I said - Labour built less housing and open the floodgates to mass migration.. Job done.. I don't give a fig who you blame, what are we going to do about it? 13 years your precious Tories have had the government and you're still pointing to Labour. 13 years and its just worse, not better.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2023 18:22:38 GMT
In 2021 there were just under 32,000 houses built which were either Housing Association or local authority
In 2013, three years after the coalition came to power, there were 29,000 homes built in the same social sector
In the last full year of a Labour government, before Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister, there were 135,000 social sector houses built.
YES pacifico, you are correct that Thatcher did build 242,000 homes ( 1988 ), of which only 34,000 were social housing.
I will stick to my original point - that the building of SOCIAL HOUSING fell of a cliff edge as soon as Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister, and many say it was done on purpose, like some kind of social cleansing.
The present housing crisis is to a large degree due to insufficient SOCIAL HOUSING been built over a 44 year period, of which 31 of those years have been under a Conservative government.
Claiming that this government has built X number of houses, or that Thatcher build X number of houses is irelevant because the vast majority of those houses are Private Sector, to buy, where a mortgage is required, something which is out of reach for many people ... the kind of people that Tories do not reall care too much about.
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