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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 15:10:32 GMT
Ursula von der Leyen Maybe (?) nominated behind closed doors, but her nomination has to be ratified by both the EU Committee (not the Commission) AND the EU Parliament. Such misunderstanding still exists even after all the disputes and debates over many decades, on the EU. And not one of the 400 million got to have a single say on the matter. I tell you what I will strike a deal with you,,,,,you prove that one single citizen of the 400 million who have had the pleasure to get to vote for any of thses unaccountable self serving second rate parasites that make the rules for the masses. And I will stop calling the eu the EUSSR and the arseholes that run this cosy little club Dictators. Hows that? I suggest you look up the definition of Representative Democracy. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 3, 2022 15:13:01 GMT
And not one of the 400 million got to have a single say on the matter. I tell you what I will strike a deal with you,,,,,you prove that one single citizen of the 400 million who have had the pleasure to get to vote for any of thses unaccountable self serving second rate parasites that make the rules for the masses. And I will stop calling the eu the EUSSR and the arseholes that run this cosy little club Dictators. Hows that? I suggest you look up the definition of Representative Democracy. I suggest you look up the defenition of open and accountable DEMOCRACY. |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 3, 2022 15:47:34 GMT
And not one of the 400 million got to have a single say on the matter. I tell you what I will strike a deal with you,,,,,you prove that one single citizen of the 400 million who have had the pleasure to get to vote for any of thses unaccountable self serving second rate parasites that make the rules for the masses. And I will stop calling the eu the EUSSR and the arseholes that run this cosy little club Dictators. Hows that? I suggest you look up the definition of Representative Democracy. Representative democracy is not democracy where parties or people forming an alliance is concerned. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 15:54:05 GMT
And not one of the 400 million got to have a single say on the matter. I tell you what I will strike a deal with you,,,,,you prove that one single citizen of the 400 million who have had the pleasure to get to vote for any of thses unaccountable self serving second rate parasites that make the rules for the masses. And I will stop calling the eu the EUSSR and the arseholes that run this cosy little club Dictators. Hows that? I suggest you look up the definition of Representative Democracy. Which becomes less democratic at each stage . |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 3, 2022 16:56:41 GMT
No Sandy the point has been was the 1992 election (which was the largest ever electoral vote) an opportunity for the electorate to reject Maastricht and the change to the EU Well it was and they didn't The point is they did not know they were accepting it. Clarity is what is required and with the EEC, the EC and the EU clarity and transparency have been distinctly lacking over the years. Your answer is typical of what happened. 'The electorate were well aware of what membership/joining/uncle Tom Cobley meant. In reality they were not and obfuscation was the name of the game continuously and repeatedly. To have a mandate one realistically has to say 'we are in agreement with the EC becoming the EU and we will raitfy the Maastricht treaty to enable this to occur'. Everything else was pretty clear as in "We will insist on more effective control over Community spending and will resist pressure to extend Community competence to new areas" It is the partial building of the EU by the general method of default and subterfuge that has caused people to be very anti, is it any wonder when you keep saying things like well everyone was well aware of what XYZ meant. They were not and found out too late. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 18:28:28 GMT
You can make a lot of people perceive something as wrong if you bombard them with lies for long enough. I don’t think the claim that the more remote you are from a decision made by voting , the less democratic the decision , is a lie. But what's that got to do with all the torrent of lies starting from Boris's spell in Brussels? |
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 18:29:57 GMT
No Sandy the point has been was the 1992 election (which was the largest ever electoral vote) an opportunity for the electorate to reject Maastricht and the change to the EU Well it was and they didn't The point is they did not know they were accepting it. Clarity is what is required and with the EEC, the EC and the EU clarity and transparency have been distinctly lacking over the years. Your answer is typical of what happened. 'The electorate were well aware of what membership/joining/uncle Tom Cobley meant. In reality they were not and obfuscation was the name of the game continuously and repeatedly. To have a mandate one realistically has to say 'we are in agreement with the EC becoming the EU and we will raitfy the Maastricht treaty to enable this to occur'. Everything else was pretty clear as in "We will insist on more effective control over Community spending and will resist pressure to extend Community competence to new areas" It is the partial building of the EU by the general method of default and subterfuge that has caused people to be very anti, is it any wonder when you keep saying things like well everyone was well aware of what XYZ meant. They were not and found out too late. Democracy does not require that those with their heads in the sand have to be dug up and shown the facts |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 18:45:15 GMT
I don’t think the claim that the more remote you are from a decision made by voting , the less democratic the decision , is a lie. But what's that got to do with all the torrent of lies starting from Boris's spell in Brussels? My post “At what point do these processes become undemocratic or at least perceived to be undemocratic? There no misunderstanding except that one can be far remote from a process and still claim that it is Democratic process .” had nothing to do with Boris . It was about representative democracy . The question should be ..what’s your post got to do with thst. |
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Post by Steve on Nov 3, 2022 18:51:34 GMT
So you reply to a post about the years of lies and try to pretend we shouldn't discuss them
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Post by sandypine on Nov 3, 2022 21:20:33 GMT
The point is they did not know they were accepting it. Clarity is what is required and with the EEC, the EC and the EU clarity and transparency have been distinctly lacking over the years. Your answer is typical of what happened. 'The electorate were well aware of what membership/joining/uncle Tom Cobley meant. In reality they were not and obfuscation was the name of the game continuously and repeatedly. To have a mandate one realistically has to say 'we are in agreement with the EC becoming the EU and we will raitfy the Maastricht treaty to enable this to occur'. Everything else was pretty clear as in "We will insist on more effective control over Community spending and will resist pressure to extend Community competence to new areas" It is the partial building of the EU by the general method of default and subterfuge that has caused people to be very anti, is it any wonder when you keep saying things like well everyone was well aware of what XYZ meant. They were not and found out too late. Democracy does not require that those with their heads in the sand have to be dug up and shown the facts Yes it does. It requires absolute clarity with what is intended most especially if that is transferral of elements of sovereignty and most especially if there are differences of opinion on what things mean. Heads could have been gently placed into the sand by the sibilant whispers over the years of the Europhiles who soothed the furrowed brows of concern with insincere blandishments. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 21:42:55 GMT
I suggest you look up the definition of Representative Democracy. I suggest you look up the defenition of open and accountable DEMOCRACY. People in the UK, live in a Representative Democracy. If you think we live in an "open and accountable DEMOCRACY", you are wrong, but your mistake does help to explain why you are so far off key when it comes to understanding both the UK and the EU. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 21:46:07 GMT
I suggest you look up the definition of Representative Democracy. Which becomes less democratic at each stage . Perhaps you should inform the Prime Minister? |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 21:50:36 GMT
Democracy does not require that those with their heads in the sand have to be dug up and shown the facts Yes it does. It requires absolute clarity with what is intended most especially if that is transferral of elements of sovereignty and most especially if there are differences of opinion on what things mean. Heads could have been gently placed into the sand by the sibilant whispers over the years of the Europhiles who soothed the furrowed brows of concern with insincere blandishments. Questions to the EU: __"The Europe Direct Contact Centre is run by the European Commission. We answer any question from the public about the European Union, via phone or email. Our staff includes native speakers of the EU's 24 official languages, as well as Ukrainian and Russian. We can give you an immediate answer to general questions about the EU help you navigate on the webpages published by the EU institutions find more specialised information. If needed, we ask an expert in the European Commission on your behalf give you the contact details for the best sources of further information and advice give you information that is factually correct and updated, according to the standards of public civil service. However, our answers are never legally binding. european-union.europa.eu/contact-eu/write-us/answering-your-questions_en |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 3, 2022 22:06:54 GMT
Yes it does. It requires absolute clarity with what is intended most especially if that is transferral of elements of sovereignty and most especially if there are differences of opinion on what things mean. Heads could have been gently placed into the sand by the sibilant whispers over the years of the Europhiles who soothed the furrowed brows of concern with insincere blandishments. Questions to the EU: __"The Europe Direct Contact Centre is run by the European Commission. We answer any question from the public about the European Union, via phone or email. Our staff includes native speakers of the EU's 24 official languages, as well as Ukrainian and Russian. We can give you an immediate answer to general questions about the EU help you navigate on the webpages published by the EU institutions find more specialised information. If needed, we ask an expert in the European Commission on your behalf give you the contact details for the best sources of further information and advice give you information that is factually correct and updated, according to the standards of public civil service. However, our answers are never legally binding. european-union.europa.eu/contact-eu/write-us/answering-your-questions_enWell let us see how the EU describe their own history and from teh Europa history site we see "How the European Union developed in the 70s, with the first addition of new members, European elections and a regional policy to boost poorer areas." european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/history-eu_enNow I can spot something glaringly wrong with the first part of that statement. Can you. I would not trust the EU, or any part of it, with providing me with facts. It is like saying how the UK developed during the Wars of the Roses. The only answer possible is it did not as it did not exist. EDIT just an aside that centre did not exist either in 1992. It may have existed in some form in teh EC but who knows and if they are equally as truthful who cares. |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 3, 2022 22:19:11 GMT
I suggest you look up the defenition of open and accountable DEMOCRACY. People in the UK, live in a Representative Democracy. If you think we live in an "open and accountable DEMOCRACY", you are wrong, but your mistake does help to explain why you are so far off key when it comes to understanding both the UK and the EU. Far from off key. And I don't need you to try and point out the finer points of the EUSSR. 2 out of 10 you must try harder. |
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