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Post by totheleft3 on Oct 27, 2022 7:34:23 GMT
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Post by thomas on Oct 27, 2022 7:37:49 GMT
i would say what you need to do is vote labour into power , and despite starmers blatant lies , you can then hold another referendum. Of course that isnt labours way , as they bitterly opposed the last one , and instead will try and sneak the uk back into the EU by tieing us up bit by bit , piece by piece behind the brussells bike sheds , and then will suffer the consequences of their duplicity for a long time after.
Such is the dimwits in the labour party though , not overly bright , but arrogant enough to think everyone else is more stupid than they.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 27, 2022 7:39:18 GMT
Win an election with a party prepared to hold a referendum and you can have as many votes as you like..
.. of course whatever the result it will need a 'confirmatory' referendum as well..
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Post by B0ycey on Oct 27, 2022 7:45:36 GMT
Depends on what side of the fence you side on Lefty. Leavers say no, remainers say yes. Personally I think there is a case for one. We have now honored the referendum by leaving and polling suggests attitudes to return are high because clearly the benefits of leaving aren't there. But then when you look at the other argument if we return we are on worse terms and may even have to adopt the Euro and Schengen. If the UK and the EU can agree to some deal that resembles what we had before then I am all for returning back to the EU. If we have to adopt Schengen and the Euro, then I think we would be worse off than even now and as such we should just try and make the best of a bad situation given monetary and border security isn't worth the tradeoff in my opinion.
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Post by thomas on Oct 27, 2022 7:52:21 GMT
Depends on what side of the fence you side on Lefty. Leavers say no, remainers say yes. Personally I think there is a case for one. We have now honored the referendum by leaving and polling suggests attitudes to return are high because clearly the benefits of leaving aren't there. But then when you look at the other argument if we return we are on worse terms and may even have to adopt the Euro and Schengen. If the UK and the EU can agree to some deal that resembles what we had before then I am all for returning back to the EU. If we have to adopt Schengen and the Euro, then I think we would be worse off than even now and as such we should just try and make the best of a bad situation given monetary and border security isn't worth the tradeoff in my opinion. your first two sentences is a rather large over generalisation . I know many remainers who say no , who want a government to tie the uk back into the eu without any democratic say , and i know leavers who say aye , bring another referendum on for another remainer kicking.
Not sure why people are scared of democracy , but such seems to be the way .Whats starmer is doing though is laughable boycey. He tells a democratically elected scottish government with a mandate to hold another ref it cant have one ., while he tells the english he wont hold another ref and make brexit work when we all know he is a liar.
Honesty is the best policy , but sadly labour dont understand this , and it will be their undoing.
Join a customs union but not the customes union and all other such pish really is bottome of the barrell stuf from labour and why they are routinely ridiculed.
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Post by B0ycey on Oct 27, 2022 8:01:41 GMT
Depends on what side of the fence you side on Lefty. Leavers say no, remainers say yes. Personally I think there is a case for one. We have now honored the referendum by leaving and polling suggests attitudes to return are high because clearly the benefits of leaving aren't there. But then when you look at the other argument if we return we are on worse terms and may even have to adopt the Euro and Schengen. If the UK and the EU can agree to some deal that resembles what we had before then I am all for returning back to the EU. If we have to adopt Schengen and the Euro, then I think we would be worse off than even now and as such we should just try and make the best of a bad situation given monetary and border security isn't worth the tradeoff in my opinion. your first two sentences is a rather large over generalisation . I know many remainers who say no , who want a government to tie the uk back into the eu without any democratic say , and i know leavers who say aye , bring another referendum on for another remainer kicking.
Not sure why people are scared of democracy , but such seems to be the way .Whats starmer is doing though is laughable boycey. He tells a democratically elected scottish government with a mandate to hold another ref it cant have one ., while he tells the english he wont hold another ref and make brexit work when we all know he is a liar.
Honesty is the best policy , but sadly labour dont understand this , and it will be their undoing.
Join a customs union but not the customes union and all other such pish really is bottome of the barrell stuf from labour and why they are routinely ridiculed.
Starmer is as good as a Leaver now Thomas. He had made it clear we aren't returning if he wins the election. I think some form of CU is perhaps the best compromise anyway and the Irish issue can be sorted in 24 hours if Sunak just agrees to sharing veterinary and food standards. We are no closer to a trade deal with the US than we were three years ago and the trade deals we have done are pretty insignificant compared to our biggest trade partner the EU. If the Tories were indeed the "Growth Coalition" they would be trying to be better trade arrangements with the EU and not with nations of less than 10m like New Zealand. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 27, 2022 8:08:43 GMT
No.
There is no point.
The EU would only begin negotiations on us rejoining if there was an overwhelming stable political consensus to do so. Those conditions simply don't exist. They have no interest in a potential member that wants to rejoin only to decide to releave only to decide to rejoin. It would damage them as well as damaging us.
We have shot ourselves in the foot. We will limp as a result for ever but we are stuck with it now.
Just the real world I am afraid.
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Post by totheleft3 on Oct 27, 2022 8:10:11 GMT
i would say what you need to do is vote labour into power , and despite starmers blatant lies , you can then hold another referendum. Of course that isnt labours way , as they bitterly opposed the last one , and instead will try and sneak the uk back into the EU by tieing us up bit by bit , piece by piece behind the brussells bike sheds , and then will suffer the consequences of their duplicity for a long time after.Such is the dimwits in the labour party though , not overly bright , but arrogant enough to think everyone else is more stupid than they.
Thomas never mind your anti labour retric do you anything constructive to say on the lies I posted about with the several evidence I gave.
Have you read them .
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Post by sandypine on Oct 27, 2022 9:06:34 GMT
No. There is no point. The EU would only begin negotiations on us rejoining if there was an overwhelming stable political consensus to do so. Those conditions simply don't exist. They have no interest in a potential member that wants to rejoin only to decide to releave only to decide to rejoin. It would damage them as well as damaging us. We have shot ourselves in the foot. We will limp as a result for ever but we are stuck with it now. Just the real world I am afraid. Limping along is better than being hamstrung. It was not a good choice but freedom, however you define it, always comes at a price. I do not think the EU are worried about stable political consensus, they are only worried about ensuring that any instability in the political consensus is sidelined. Cameron tried to sideline it by going for a referendum which he thought he would win easily but found out he was wrong. That is an error that would not be allowed to reoccur. The real world means that some people wish to control everything irrespective of what the electorate want and will allow democracy only as a means to tinker with the system and not as a means to change the system. That is cast in stone. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2022 9:59:31 GMT
i would say what you need to do is vote labour into power , and despite starmers blatant lies , you can then hold another referendum. Of course that isnt labours way , as they bitterly opposed the last one , and instead will try and sneak the uk back into the EU by tieing us up bit by bit , piece by piece behind the brussells bike sheds , and then will suffer the consequences of their duplicity for a long time after.
Such is the dimwits in the labour party though , not overly bright , but arrogant enough to think everyone else is more stupid than they.
Not all Labour voters or MPs opposed Brexit, that's the first bit of stupidity. A lie is not a lie until the claimed action has happened, therefore you are making a prediction and Starmer he not 'blatantly' lied, that's the second. We were better off in the EU than we are out of it, that's the third. Not a good view really. |
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Post by borchester on Oct 27, 2022 10:25:35 GMT
According to these guys, Labour currently has a 32% lead over the Tories and one of the reasons is that Starmer said the Labour party should regard Brexit as a done deal and move on. Sir Stodge is not going to risk losing the next election just to please a few Brussels Bumboys.
The real question is what sort of organisation will the UK be voting to join? Most of us were quite happy with the old Common Market. It probably did fuck all for UK industry, but then again, during the last quarter of the 20th century, British industry did fuck all for itself. So if we are voting for the original trade organisation then a definite maybe. I am not so sure how successful the original cartel would have been against the current crop of pushy sods from China, but it probably won't do any harm either.
But right now the EU is best mates with the Ukraine and while I don't mind sending Zelenskyy a few bombs to drop on the Russians, I don't see any advantage in getting drawn further into the quagmire of Ukrainian politics.
Of course, Gabon and Togo have just joined the Commonwealth, so if the EU countries want to apply, why not?
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 27, 2022 10:32:43 GMT
It's just bad timing that Brexit happened at the same time as Covid and Ukraine war.
It's given the remoaners a opportunist excuse to blame Brexit for everything that is going wrong.
In fact all the things that are happening right now would be happening if we were still in the EU, in fact things would be a lot worse, because the UK would be asked to contribute even more money to bolster up the EU countries that are failing.
So you see folks, we had a lucky escape, things could be a lot lot worse.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 27, 2022 10:56:52 GMT
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Post by dodgydave on Oct 27, 2022 11:13:47 GMT
Do you live in a bubble?
If you think the strikes are bad now, wait till you open up Freedom of Movement again, and consign millions of workers to the minimum wage again.
Also, are you not aware of the impending Sovereign Debt Crisis 2.0?
You never answer the simple question. Did you decide which way you were going to vote during the campaign or before it? We all know the answer.
What an arrogant person you are to suggest you were immune to being conned, yet more than half the country were not.
No sir, it is you that has been conned, because you believe the bullshit that people were conned lol. Brexit was a vote on people's experience of Freedom of Movement. Stop talking shite about people being conned.
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Post by thomas on Oct 27, 2022 11:15:52 GMT
your first two sentences is a rather large over generalisation . I know many remainers who say no , who want a government to tie the uk back into the eu without any democratic say , and i know leavers who say aye , bring another referendum on for another remainer kicking.
Not sure why people are scared of democracy , but such seems to be the way .Whats starmer is doing though is laughable boycey. He tells a democratically elected scottish government with a mandate to hold another ref it cant have one ., while he tells the english he wont hold another ref and make brexit work when we all know he is a liar.
Honesty is the best policy , but sadly labour dont understand this , and it will be their undoing.
Join a customs union but not the customes union and all other such pish really is bottome of the barrell stuf from labour and why they are routinely ridiculed.
Starmer is as good as a Leaver now Thomas. He had made it clear we aren't returning if he wins the election. I think some form of CU is perhaps the best compromise anyway and the Irish issue can be sorted in 24 hours if Sunak just agrees to sharing veterinary and food standards. We are no closer to a trade deal with the US than we were three years ago and the trade deals we have done are pretty insignificant compared to our biggest trade partner the EU. If the Tories were indeed the "Growth Coalition" they would be trying to be better trade arrangements with the EU and not with nations of less than 10m like New Zealand. well if you believe that starmer and the new labour centrist are not going to take the uk back into the eu , your either extremely naive or trying to be clever.
Starmer has made many things "clear" prior to and during the course of his corontation as labour leader , and as yet , most of his promises dont last the week.
How many more times do we need to go over this customs union nonsense? The uk cannot join a customs union , or the customs union with the EU and do its own trade deals.Even arch remainer Blair said this was the only reason he saw in actually leaving the eu.
Like i said boycey , honesty is the best policy , but starmer is to arrogant and dim to admit what he wants to do.
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