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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 6:36:57 GMT
I was wondering what the overall view is on here regarding climate change.
You all know my view, but if you don't. I think manmade climate change is very real and is now urgent.
This comes off the back of the fact that I have mentioned several times that there is a cost to doing nothing about climate change, just as there is to do something about it.
Be good to see your vote and your views.
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Post by Orac on May 30, 2023 7:15:03 GMT
Because zany is such a reasonable and un-complaining person, the last time he made a mind zone thread about climate change, there was at least one person who entirely forgot the thread was in mind zone.
The thread is mind zone
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Post by wapentake on May 30, 2023 8:45:11 GMT
Is the climate changing? Yes it is but then hasn’t it always?
At the outset a few observations (I’m not attributing them to topic starter) It seems to me at least that we are entering a new religious age and that religion is climate change where any who do not subscribe to its strict beliefs are sneered at as deniers,the climate scientists are the new priesthood and like the pope infallible so any alternative views are dismissed out of hand.
I have no doubt that man and industry has affected the earth with pollutants but believe any threat is really linked to the number of people on the planet,this is often dismissed out of hand by those who say population is falling I think it would have to fall by a massive amount to mitigate the affects of the human race and people movement.
Add in to the mix the desire in the west and not least here to display our shame and contrition for our past,this is being jumped on by emerging nations to extract reparations for that history not least the Industrial Revolution.
I read somewhere recently that if you looked at the pollution levels of the UK from the beginning (of the Industrial Revolution)to now it would approximate that produced by China over the last ten years.
Can we we clean up our act in many respects? Yes but the race for net zero may bring more problems than solutions,perhaps they should be looking deeper in to hydrogen powered vehicles and as far as our own country them getting their act together whatever the govts colour and committing to secure our energy needs instead of short term attempts to crowd please.
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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 15:45:20 GMT
Because zany is such a reasonable and un-complaining person, the last time he made a mind zone thread about climate change, there was at least one person who entirely forgot the thread was in mind zone. The thread is mind zone Thank you balanced and fair minded moderator. I'm really glad I supported your bid for the role. |
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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 15:57:37 GMT
Is the climate changing? Yes it is but then hasn’t it always? At the outset a few observations (I’m not attributing them to topic starter) It seems to me at least that we are entering a new religious age and that religion is climate change where any who do not subscribe to its strict beliefs are sneered at as deniers,the climate scientists are the new priesthood and like the pope infallible so any alternative views are dismissed out of hand. I have no doubt that man and industry has affected the earth with pollutants but believe any threat is really linked to the number of people on the planet,this is often dismissed out of hand by those who say population is falling I think it would have to fall by a massive amount to mitigate the affects of the human race and people movement. Add in to the mix the desire in the west and not least here to display our shame and contrition for our past,this is being jumped on by emerging nations to extract reparations for that history not least the Industrial Revolution. I read somewhere recently that if you looked at the pollution levels of the UK from the beginning (of the Industrial Revolution)to now it would approximate that produced by China over the last ten years. Can we we clean up our act in many respects? Yes but the race for net zero may bring more problems than solutions,perhaps they should be looking deeper in to hydrogen powered vehicles and as far as our own country them getting their act together whatever the govts colour and committing to secure our energy needs instead of short term attempts to crowd please. I do fear simply rinse repeating the previous thread on climate change. But in answer to these basic questions. 1, The climate has always changed but never at the rate it is at the moment and always due to a known event. 2, IMO science is not a religion, nor does it seem believable that China, America and Europe would all sign up to the same religious dogma. 3, Yes ofcourse population is a factor, if the world population was 10 they could all have coal fires and drive Mustangs with no effect, but the world population is not 10. 4, The West is responsible for most Climate change so it does seem sensible that the easiest place to start cleaning up is the West. Much of China's production is making stuff for us. 5, Not sure how the race to Net zero brings more problems, could you explain 6, I'm not against hydrogen, assuming you make it without burning fossil fuels. 7, I would have to say renewable energy produced at home or by our immediate and stable neighbours seems a very good step towards secure energy supply. No more reliance on OPEC or Russia. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 30, 2023 16:43:32 GMT
Is the climate changing? Yes it is but then hasn’t it always? At the outset a few observations (I’m not attributing them to topic starter) It seems to me at least that we are entering a new religious age and that religion is climate change where any who do not subscribe to its strict beliefs are sneered at as deniers,the climate scientists are the new priesthood and like the pope infallible so any alternative views are dismissed out of hand. I have no doubt that man and industry has affected the earth with pollutants but believe any threat is really linked to the number of people on the planet,this is often dismissed out of hand by those who say population is falling I think it would have to fall by a massive amount to mitigate the affects of the human race and people movement. Add in to the mix the desire in the west and not least here to display our shame and contrition for our past,this is being jumped on by emerging nations to extract reparations for that history not least the Industrial Revolution. I read somewhere recently that if you looked at the pollution levels of the UK from the beginning (of the Industrial Revolution)to now it would approximate that produced by China over the last ten years. Can we we clean up our act in many respects? Yes but the race for net zero may bring more problems than solutions,perhaps they should be looking deeper in to hydrogen powered vehicles and as far as our own country them getting their act together whatever the govts colour and committing to secure our energy needs instead of short term attempts to crowd please. I do fear simply rinse repeating the previous thread on climate change. But in answer to these basic questions. 1, The climate has always changed but never at the rate it is at the moment and always due to a known event. 2, IMO science is not a religion, nor does it seem believable that China, America and Europe would all sign up to the same religious dogma. 3, Yes ofcourse population is a factor, if the world population was 10 they could all have coal fires and drive Mustangs with no effect, but the world population is not 10. 4, The West is responsible for most Climate change so it does seem sensible that the easiest place to start cleaning up is the West. Much of China's production is making stuff for us. 5, Not sure how the race to Net zero brings more problems, could you explain 6, I'm not against hydrogen, assuming you make it without burning fossil fuels. 7, I would have to say renewable energy produced at home or by our immediate and stable neighbours seems a very good step towards secure energy supply. No more reliance on OPEC or Russia. Who do you have in mind? |
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Post by wapentake on May 30, 2023 16:48:34 GMT
Is the climate changing? Yes it is but then hasn’t it always? At the outset a few observations (I’m not attributing them to topic starter) It seems to me at least that we are entering a new religious age and that religion is climate change where any who do not subscribe to its strict beliefs are sneered at as deniers,the climate scientists are the new priesthood and like the pope infallible so any alternative views are dismissed out of hand. I have no doubt that man and industry has affected the earth with pollutants but believe any threat is really linked to the number of people on the planet,this is often dismissed out of hand by those who say population is falling I think it would have to fall by a massive amount to mitigate the affects of the human race and people movement. Add in to the mix the desire in the west and not least here to display our shame and contrition for our past,this is being jumped on by emerging nations to extract reparations for that history not least the Industrial Revolution. I read somewhere recently that if you looked at the pollution levels of the UK from the beginning (of the Industrial Revolution)to now it would approximate that produced by China over the last ten years. Can we we clean up our act in many respects? Yes but the race for net zero may bring more problems than solutions,perhaps they should be looking deeper in to hydrogen powered vehicles and as far as our own country them getting their act together whatever the govts colour and committing to secure our energy needs instead of short term attempts to crowd please. But in answer to these basic questions. 1, The climate has always changed but never at the rate it is at the moment and always due to a known event. To that in bold I’m not sure if I was around for your other climate change thread but if I’m simply repeating what you’ve heard please frame your questions to reflect that. So what are you saying this is an unknown event? but yes there have been some very rapid changes in the past. www.britannica.com/science/climate-change/Abrupt-climate-changes-in-Earth-historyAll signed up and doing their best to avoid it. I think it really is comparable to a religion where any who question the science are treated like apostates. And the people around just stop oil are like religious fanatics. So are you saying we owe the rest of the world reparations? Yes batteries for instance and how they are manufactured and their disposal See my answer in Q5 Are you against nuclear? In any event there has been long neglect of any preparation in order to secure our energy security. |
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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 17:07:19 GMT
I do fear simply rinse repeating the previous thread on climate change. But in answer to these basic questions. 1, The climate has always changed but never at the rate it is at the moment and always due to a known event. 2, IMO science is not a religion, nor does it seem believable that China, America and Europe would all sign up to the same religious dogma. 3, Yes ofcourse population is a factor, if the world population was 10 they could all have coal fires and drive Mustangs with no effect, but the world population is not 10. 4, The West is responsible for most Climate change so it does seem sensible that the easiest place to start cleaning up is the West. Much of China's production is making stuff for us. 5, Not sure how the race to Net zero brings more problems, could you explain 6, I'm not against hydrogen, assuming you make it without burning fossil fuels. 7, I would have to say renewable energy produced at home or by our immediate and stable neighbours seems a very good step towards secure energy supply. No more reliance on OPEC or Russia. Who do you have in mind? The interconnectors across Europe, including the nuclear production in France. |
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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 17:37:31 GMT
I do fear simply rinse repeating the previous thread on climate change. But in answer to these basic questions. 1, The climate has always changed but never at the rate it is at the moment and always due to a known event. Fair do's Not at all, I think its a known event AGW (Anthropogenic global warming) And yes there have been historical rapid changes but as I said they have identifiable causes, as indeed does the current one. Even more so because of the advance in science, satellite etc and the fact its happening in real time, so we can elliminate such things as Sun spots, milankovitch cycles etc. www.britannica.com/science/climate-change/Abrupt-climate-changes-in-Earth-historyI find it remarkable that you think 90%+ of scientists across the globe all agree to abandon their science in the name of global acceptance, but its a free world. Stop oil are just fanatics. No, just that the best place to make changes is where they have most effect. By example: If river pollution comes mostly from water companies it would seem daft to demand farmers clean up their act first. This really needs you to find the previous thread, but in brief. A:The mining for Lithium etc is causing local pollution, it needs cleaning up but its not world threatening like climate change. B; It has been falsely claimed that millions of batteries are being left scrapped and poisoning the planet. This was a misquoted article which stated that it could happen. However the better prediction is that batteries that have reached the end of the automotive life will become backup batteries for farms and homes where storage capacity is far less important. Indeed a company set up to carry out this task is struggling from the lack of batteries wearing out as fast as the sceptics claimed. The comparison does not work. Production of batteries requires one off power usage. Hydrogen production continuous power usage. Are you against nuclear? In any event there has been long neglect of any preparation in order to secure our energy security. No, I'm pro nuclear, but we left it too late. The cost of nuclear makes it too expensive now to be anything other than a back up energy. Whilst wind power dropped below the cost of gas (before Putin invaded Ukraine. And despite the sceptics claims that its to unreliable it has been found that the wind in the North sea rarely stops blowing and we produced 58% of our electricity from non fossil fuels last year. my view is that if we can get gas/coal/nuclear as a pure back up supply we can achieve Net zero with no reliance on volatile nations or global prices. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 30, 2023 17:39:33 GMT
The interconnectors across Europe, including the nuclear production in France. This would be the country that only recently threatened to cut off energy supplies in a spat over fishing licences - how on earth does that deliver a secure energy supply? |
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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 17:43:10 GMT
The interconnectors across Europe, including the nuclear production in France. This would be the country that only recently threatened to cut off energy supplies in a spat over fishing licences - how on earth does that deliver a secure energy supply? Yeah yeah whatever. Never happened, never would. And its two way traffic in case you didn't know. |
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Post by wapentake on May 30, 2023 17:51:04 GMT
A:The mining for Lithium etc is causing local pollution, it needs cleaning up but it’s not world threatening like climate change. B; It has been falsely claimed that millions of batteries are being left scrapped and poisoning the planet. This was a misquoted article which stated that it could happen. However the better prediction is that batteries that have reached the end of the automotive life will become backup batteries for farms and homes where storage capacity is far less important. Indeed a company set up to carry out this task is struggling from the lack of batteries wearing out as fast as the sceptics claimed. The comparison does not work. Production of batteries requires one ofpower usage. Hydrogen production continuous power usage. Are you sure? www.science.org/content/article/millions-electric-cars-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries |
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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 18:10:17 GMT
Yes I'm sure, and yes that's the article misquoted. From the article you linked. But when the battery comes to the end of its life, its green benefits fade. If it ends up in a landfill,The question as I stated was when it comes to the end of its life has turned out to be a misnomer. Also, most car companies (Tesla sadly excluded) have car batteries where individual cells can be replaced. Also, car batteries are already exceeding the sceptics views of their life, with even the original car batteries still working at near full capacity. |
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Post by wapentake on May 30, 2023 18:28:34 GMT
Yes I'm sure, and yes that's the article misquoted. From the article you linked. But when the battery comes to the end of its life, its green benefits fade. If it ends up in a landfill,The question as I stated was when it comes to the end of its life has turned out to be a misnomer. Also, most car companies (Tesla sadly excluded) have car batteries where individual cells can be replaced. Also, car batteries are already exceeding the sceptics views of their life, with even the original car batteries still working at near full capacity. Well TBF it has a lot more to say than that. |
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Post by zanygame on May 30, 2023 19:12:12 GMT
Yes I'm sure, and yes that's the article misquoted. From the article you linked. But when the battery comes to the end of its life, its green benefits fade. If it ends up in a landfill,The question as I stated was when it comes to the end of its life has turned out to be a misnomer. Also, most car companies (Tesla sadly excluded) have car batteries where individual cells can be replaced. Also, car batteries are already exceeding the sceptics views of their life, with even the original car batteries still working at near full capacity. Well TBF it has a lot more to say than that. Care to expand? |
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