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Post by Toreador on May 16, 2023 9:55:31 GMT
This is slightly misleading. It is more accurate to say that the distinction between male and female isn't apparent until a certain stage of development. A human foetus is male (or female) from the first fertilized cell. Not true, the male only emerges if a 'Y' chromosome kicks in, until that happens the fetus is female. How else could males develop nipples? As far as I'm aware the fertilised egg carries both male and female physical characteristics and generally most of those prevail but some regress. Pimples on tits are not the only characteristic to be found. |
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Post by sheepy on May 17, 2023 6:21:07 GMT
Case proven I reckon, 11 pages of experts who had no idea of what they were talking about.
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Post by see2 on May 17, 2023 6:46:34 GMT
Not true, the male only emerges if a 'Y' chromosome kicks in, until that happens the fetus is female. How else could males develop nipples? As far as I'm aware the fertilised egg carries both male and female physical characteristics and generally most of those prevail but some regress. Pimples on tits are not the only characteristic to be found. The 'Y' chromosome comes from the father. Without the 'Y' chromosome the egg is female. If a 'Y' chromosome doesn't kick in, the fetus is female. Obviously the 'Y' chromosome comes in LATE if it was a normal part of the fertilesed egg, males would not have nipples. |
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Post by Toreador on May 17, 2023 6:49:51 GMT
As far as I'm aware the fertilised egg carries both male and female physical characteristics and generally most of those prevail but some regress. Pimples on tits are not the only characteristic to be found. The 'Y' chromosome comes from the father. Without the 'Y' chromosome the egg is female. If a 'Y' chromosome doesn't kick in, the fetus is female. Obviously the 'Y' chromosome comes in LATE if it was a normal part of the fertilesed egg, males would not have nipples. ....and females would not have a clitoris. |
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Post by see2 on May 17, 2023 6:56:33 GMT
The 'Y' chromosome comes from the father. Without the 'Y' chromosome the egg is female. If a 'Y' chromosome doesn't kick in, the fetus is female. Obviously the 'Y' chromosome comes in LATE if it was a normal part of the fertilesed egg, males would not have nipples. ....and females would not have a clitoris. True, I think  Interestingly enough, the part that develops into the clitoris, is the same part that will develop into a penis, if the 'Y' chromosome has its way. |
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Post by Orac on May 17, 2023 7:21:57 GMT
As far as I'm aware the fertilised egg carries both male and female physical characteristics and generally most of those prevail but some regress. Pimples on tits are not the only characteristic to be found. The 'Y' chromosome comes from the father. Without the 'Y' chromosome the egg is female. Male Foetuses have a Y chromosome. |
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Post by Orac on May 17, 2023 7:25:18 GMT
Not true, the male only emerges if a 'Y' chromosome kicks in, until that happens the fetus is female. How else could males develop nipples? As far as I'm aware the fertilised egg carries both male and female physical characteristics and generally most of those prevail but some regress. Pimples on tits are not the only characteristic to be found. That's a very different thing from saying a foetus is actually one sex or another. Males don't start off as females. This is a similar type of claim as saying a man who removes his penis is female |
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Post by see2 on May 17, 2023 7:34:23 GMT
The 'Y' chromosome comes from the father. Without the 'Y' chromosome the egg is female. Male Foetuses have a Y chromosome. Supplied by the father, it is not part of the egg produced by the female. |
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Post by see2 on May 17, 2023 7:36:32 GMT
As far as I'm aware the fertilised egg carries both male and female physical characteristics and generally most of those prevail but some regress. Pimples on tits are not the only characteristic to be found. That's a very different thing from saying a foetus is actually one sex or another. Males don't start off as females. This is a similar type of claim as saying a man who removes his penis is female Very poor analogy. The egg produced by the female IS female. |
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Post by Orac on May 17, 2023 7:42:10 GMT
That's a very different thing from saying a foetus is actually one sex or another. Males don't start off as females. This is a similar type of claim as saying a man who removes his penis is female Very poor analogy. The egg produced by the female IS female. The egg is not a foetus before it is fertilized by a sperm anymore than a sperm is a foetus before it fertilises an egg. |
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Post by see2 on May 17, 2023 8:09:37 GMT
Very poor analogy. The egg produced by the female IS female. The egg is not a foetus before it is fertilized by a sperm anymore than a sperm is a foetus before it fertilises an egg. Stating the obvious does not change the fact that the egg is female. The egg can be fertilized by the father with either an 'X' or a 'Y' chromosome. If it is an 'X' fertilization then normal growth continues. If a 'Y' chromosome kicks in then normal development is delayed while changes take place. This is why male babies are less developed at birth than female babies. This was very obvious a few generations ago when many more male babies died than did female babies. Anecdotal evidence from years gone by is the claims made by mothers that "girl babies are stronger than boy babies" based upon the experience that fewer girl babies succumbed to illness than boy babies. It has been reconised in modern times by Teachers who have found that many 5 year old boys designated as 'slow learners' were actually less developed than others in the class. |
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Post by Orac on May 17, 2023 8:31:18 GMT
The egg is not a foetus before it is fertilized by a sperm anymore than a sperm is a foetus before it fertilises an egg. Stating the obvious does not change the fact that the egg is female. The egg can be fertilized by the father with either an 'X' or a 'Y' chromosome. If it is an 'X' fertilization then normal growth continues. If a 'Y' chromosome kicks in then normal development is delayed while changes take place. I have no idea why you are using the term 'normal development' in this context. Without both a sperm and an egg, there is no 'development' at all. It does make some very limited figurative sense to talk about the 'sex' of a sperm, because a sperm carrying y can only create a male and vice versa. However, neither sperm or an egg really have a sex in any meaningful sense - neither are they a foetus or a child or a human. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 17, 2023 9:03:31 GMT
The egg is not a foetus before it is fertilized by a sperm anymore than a sperm is a foetus before it fertilises an egg. Stating the obvious does not change the fact that the egg is female. The egg can be fertilized by the father with either an 'X' or a 'Y' chromosome. If it is an 'X' fertilization then normal growth continues. If a 'Y' chromosome kicks in then normal development is delayed while changes take place. This is why male babies are less developed at birth than female babies. This was very obvious a few generations ago when many more male babies died than did female babies. Anecdotal evidence from years gone by is the claims made by mothers that "girl babies are stronger than boy babies" based upon the experience that fewer girl babies succumbed to illness than boy babies. It has been reconised in modern times by Teachers who have found that many 5 year old boys designated as 'slow learners' were actually less developed than others in the class. This is a load of nonsense. Demonstrate how an egg made up of cells is biologically female. |
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Post by Toreador on May 17, 2023 9:18:32 GMT
As far as I'm aware the fertilised egg carries both male and female physical characteristics and generally most of those prevail but some regress. Pimples on tits are not the only characteristic to be found. That's a very different thing from saying a foetus is actually one sex or another. Males don't start off as females. This is a similar type of claim as saying a man who removes his penis is female The foetus doesn't start off as anything other than an organism with a set of chromosomes, it is the y-chromosome that determines male sex. That doesn't stop things like nipples or appendages remaining as part of the body, even reacting to stimuli; hair growth is another thing determined by the y-chromosome. |
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Post by Orac on May 17, 2023 9:21:48 GMT
That's a very different thing from saying a foetus is actually one sex or another. Males don't start off as females. This is a similar type of claim as saying a man who removes his penis is female The foetus doesn't start off as anything other than an organism with a set of chromosomes, it is the y-chromosome that determines male sex. That doesn't stop things like nipples or appendages remaining as part of the body, even reacting to stimuli; hair growth is another thing determined by the y-chromosome. I'd say it was more accurate to say that a foetus does have a sex, but that sex is not readily apparent until a certain stage of development. |
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