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Post by Orac on May 15, 2023 9:24:10 GMT
A 'biological man' can't become a 'biological woman' - for clarity it is probably better to use the terms 'human male' and 'human female' This is another woke lefties tactic. They change the emphasis from man to woman to create strawmen and accuse others of doing it . When it’s pointed out that a biological man cannot be a biological woman they pretend that this was never claimed in the first place . So how can a biological man be defined as a biological woman ? Just change the definition of woman or claim that the definition of woman and man is a social construct and meaningless . Just another way to claim that a biological man can be defined as a biological woman . So with that in mind I don’t think the term ‘ human male ‘ or ‘ human female’ brings more clarity. It muddies the waters and gives lefties wriggle room to inject feelings into a factual argument. The argumentation technique is called 'Motte and Bailey' - this technique emplys two arguments related to a position. The first (known as 'the Motte') is usually uncontroversial and easy going - it is a relatively strong position. The second (known as 'the Bailey') is usually controversial and weak. The arguer attempts to paint the second (weak) argument as a consequence of the first (strong) argument. His mark is then told that, because he accepted the first argument he has implicitly accepted the second. If his opponent starts to question the weak argument, the arguer replaces this weak argument with the strong (Motte) argument. So it would go like this - 1) The concept 'man' is a social construct. Therefore - 2) Sex is an arbitrary social construct. Another example of the technique being used in the same domain is this - 1) We should treat people suffering with gender dysphoria with sympathy and respect Therefore - 2) It is our duty to forcibly change society so any distinction between men and women is erased |
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Post by Bentley on May 15, 2023 9:28:54 GMT
This is another woke lefties tactic. They change the emphasis from man to woman to create strawmen and accuse others of doing it . When it’s pointed out that a biological man cannot be a biological woman they pretend that this was never claimed in the first place . So how can a biological man be defined as a biological woman ? Just change the definition of woman or claim that the definition of woman and man is a social construct and meaningless . Just another way to claim that a biological man can be defined as a biological woman . So with that in mind I don’t think the term ‘ human male ‘ or ‘ human female’ brings more clarity. It muddies the waters and gives lefties wriggle room to inject feelings into a factual argument. The argumentation technique is called 'Motte and Bailey' - this technique emplys two arguments related to a position. The first (known as 'the Motte') is usually uncontroversial and easy going - it is a relatively strong position. The second (known as 'the Bailey') is usually controversial and weak. The arguer attempts to paint the second (weak) argument as a consequence of the first (strong) argument. His mark is then told that, because he accepted the first argument he has implicitly accepted the second. If his opponent starts to question the weak argument, the arguer replaces this weak argument with the strong (Motte) argument. So it would go like this - 1) The concept 'man' is a social construct. Therefore - 2) Sex is an arbitrary social construct. Another example of the technique being used in the same domain is this - 1) We should treat people suffering with gender dysphoria with sympathy and respect Therefore - 2) It is our duty to forcibly change society so any distinction between men and women is erased Very good . |
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Post by see2 on May 15, 2023 11:22:10 GMT
It is far from rare, it is there all around us everyday. It's extremely rare. You are confusing sex with (say) wide vs narrow shoulders. These are not the same things I NEVER SUGGESTED IT WAS, now if you wish to debate, you do need to behave yourself. There are male and female traits which is what I was referring to. One known fact is that if the womb is flooded with male hormones while carrying a female fetus, that can have male influences on the Fetus. Ditto if it is a male fetus in a womb flooded in female hormones. |
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Post by Orac on May 15, 2023 11:37:43 GMT
It's extremely rare. You are confusing sex with (say) wide vs narrow shoulders. These are not the same things I NEVER SUGGESTED IT WAS, now if you wish to debate, you do need to behave yourself. There are male and female traits which is what I was referring to. You responded to correct me, but I was talking about biological sex . Go take a look |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2023 11:48:53 GMT
I NEVER SUGGESTED IT WAS, now if you wish to debate, you do need to behave yourself. There are male and female traits which is what I was referring to. You responded to correct me, but I was talking about biological sex . Go take a look Maybe he/she is confused. Once their belief system has been programmed with large doses of Marxist propaganda they won't accept scientific reasoning very well. They're very reactionary. |
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Post by see2 on May 15, 2023 14:16:58 GMT
I NEVER SUGGESTED IT WAS, now if you wish to debate, you do need to behave yourself. There are male and female traits which is what I was referring to. You responded to correct me, but I was talking about biological sex . Go take a look And my particular post that you responded to was about the mix of male and female traits, not about sex or about biology per se. |
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Post by see2 on May 15, 2023 14:21:39 GMT
You responded to correct me, but I was talking about biological sex . Go take a look Maybe he/she is confused. Once their belief system has been programmed with large doses of Marxist propaganda they won't accept scientific reasoning very well. They're very reactionary. Your post is the product of your own total confusion. It says much more about yourself than it says about anyone else, and certainly nothing to do with the poster of the post in question. |
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Post by Orac on May 15, 2023 15:48:01 GMT
Maybe he/she is confused. Once their belief system has been programmed with large doses of Marxist propaganda they won't accept scientific reasoning very well. They're very reactionary. Your post is the product of your own total confusion. It says much more about yourself than it says about anyone else, and certainly nothing to do with the poster of the post in question. I really don't think so. My point was that the sex binary (male vs female) is not an arbitrary construction of tradition or culture, but is rather based on reality. |
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Post by Toreador on May 15, 2023 16:08:14 GMT
You responded to correct me, but I was talking about biological sex . Go take a look And my particular post that you responded to was about the mix of male and female traits, not about sex or about biology per se. Does all this mean I became a woman when I had my prostate removed? |
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Post by see2 on May 15, 2023 17:45:23 GMT
And my particular post that you responded to was about the mix of male and female traits, not about sex or about biology per se. Does all this mean I became a woman when I had my prostate removed? No, you were already one (once) ha ha. But seriously, we all start off as a female, that's the reason males have nipples. |
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Post by see2 on May 15, 2023 17:53:26 GMT
Your post is the product of your own total confusion. It says much more about yourself than it says about anyone else, and certainly nothing to do with the poster of the post in question. I really don't think so. My point was that the sex binary (male vs female) is not an arbitrary construction of tradition or culture, but is rather based on reality. That ^^^ is a basic truth, and I HAVE NEVER SUGGESTED DIFFERENTLY. Pointing out the mix of male and female traits means, don't end your THINKING with a full stop because that would indicate a closed mind. A situation where someone thinks they know and understand everything. When in reality opinions just don't do it. |
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Post by Orac on May 15, 2023 18:05:10 GMT
Does all this mean I became a woman when I had my prostate removed? No, you were already one (once) ha ha. But seriously, we all start off as a female, that's the reason males have nipples. This is slightly misleading. It is more accurate to say that the distinction between male and female isn't apparent until a certain stage of development. A human foetus is male (or female) from the first fertilized cell. |
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Post by Toreador on May 16, 2023 7:19:18 GMT
No, you were already one (once) ha ha. But seriously, we all start off as a female, that's the reason males have nipples. This is slightly misleading. It is more accurate to say that the distinction between male and female isn't apparent until a certain stage of development. A human foetus is male (or female) from the first fertilized cell. Is the correct answer and I haven't let on that some females have a prostate gland. |
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Post by see2 on May 16, 2023 7:44:57 GMT
No, you were already one (once) ha ha. But seriously, we all start off as a female, that's the reason males have nipples. This is slightly misleading. It is more accurate to say that the distinction between male and female isn't apparent until a certain stage of development. A human foetus is male (or female) from the first fertilized cell. Not true, the male only emerges if a 'Y' chromosome kicks in, until that happens the fetus is female. How else could males develop nipples? |
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Post by Orac on May 16, 2023 7:56:31 GMT
This is slightly misleading. It is more accurate to say that the distinction between male and female isn't apparent until a certain stage of development. A human foetus is male (or female) from the first fertilized cell. Not true, the male only emerges if a 'Y' chromosome kicks in, until that happens the fetus is female. How else could males develop nipples? This is misleading - the foetus is either male or female from the very start. The Y chromosome is either present, and the foetus is male, or it isn't, and the foetus is female. |
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