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Post by Vinny on May 10, 2023 14:27:12 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65543954Sir Peter Mathieson, principal and vice-chancellor of the University of Edinburgh, says government funding is "inadequate". Introduce means testing and fees for the well off. And get rid of the SNP.
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Post by thomas on May 11, 2023 14:35:18 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65543954Sir Peter Mathieson, principal and vice-chancellor of the University of Edinburgh, says government funding is "inadequate". Introduce means testing and fees for the well off. And get rid of the SNP. England wales and northern ireland are the outlier across europe regarding to massive american style tuition fees vincent.
Alex Salmond
@alexsalmond
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21h
Ten years ago I said that the rocks would melt with the sun before we allow the Tories or Labour to take away the right to free education in Scotland.
Any political party which tries to reintroduce tuition fees will see their support evaporate
We need to expand University and College provision for young Scots. Sir Peter Mathieson should familiarise himself with the Scottish educational tradition - perhaps he should be concentrating on defending free speech in his University, not ending free education in Scotland.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2023 17:39:51 GMT
Education is free. This is about higher education, so Salmond is already misrepresenting the argument. Scotland is now obviously uncertain on how to fund it, because it's unsustainable and will simply lead to millions of Scots losing out under a broken system. Vinny's idea of means testing is good, as that will allow grants for those who have proven themselves by meeting entry requirements, but come from poorer backgrounds. Why screw people over out of some moronic and unsustainable "it ain't English" mentality?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 11, 2023 17:42:43 GMT
And post independence it would be zero. |
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Post by borchester on May 12, 2023 0:12:09 GMT
University funding is always inadequate and academia has always got its hand out.
If a degree is worth having then it is worth paying for, and if the youngsters want a few years doss before they hit the world of work, well, that is why we have the dole.
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Post by thomas on May 12, 2023 6:02:54 GMT
Education is free. This is about higher education, so Salmond is already misrepresenting the argument. Scotland is now obviously uncertain on how to fund it, because it's unsustainable and will simply lead to millions of Scots losing out under a broken system. you talk about misrepresenting the argument and come out with this pish above.
prove it?
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Post by thomas on May 12, 2023 6:13:42 GMT
University funding is always inadequate and academia has always got its hand out.
If a degree is worth having then it is worth paying for, and if the youngsters want a few years doss before they hit the world of work, well, that is why we have the dole.
well good luck any of your british parties trying to sell that mantra to scottish families borkie. Its not as if it hasnt been tried before. Labour tried to do just that to much national anger across scotland ,and were kicked out (in part) for bringing in the original tuition fees.
You and your fellow countrymen talk about broken systems and payment mantras , but tell me how is the english university system doing in terms of tuition fees? You government already has a black hole in university tuition fee funding , with the loans that have been paid out not being paid back , which is why your government is raising the timescale from 30 to 40 years in terms of paying it back and lowering the repayment threshold. Eventually , the funding will follow kids to their graves when they are elderly , and be taken from whatever inheritance they may try to leave.
Second most expensive tuition fees in the world , with england and wales and the northern irish being an outlier among european nations , and an increasingly complained about service.
In england , any old kid with half an education can go onto university ,as long as they pay(ie take on mass debt) which is leading to the devaluation of degrees , places being scarce as universities are overwhelmed , and children being indebted for the rest of their lives for worthless degrees that dont lead to well paying jobs , and an education that they could have got at the public library for free.
Meanwhile in scotland , the free tuition system only takes the cream of the scottish youngsters crop , unlike in england. and we get to charge foreigners for their places as it should be. Win win.
University student complaints hit record high in England and Wales for fourth successive year
'It's disappointing to throw that much money away'
Ryan Dunleavy of Harcus Parker, one of the law firms representing them, said: "Some have now left university, feeling thoroughly disappointed about the subpar service they received, which in no way reflected what they had been promised by their universities.
"Those who are still on courses at their universities tend to feed back to us that how they are being taught is still not up to the standard that they were promised."
A quarter of complaints to the OIA in 2022 were classed as "justified" or "partly justified", or were settled in favour of the student.
A group of more than 400 students received £640,000 in compensation
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Post by thomas on May 12, 2023 6:21:53 GMT
And post independence it would be zero. Scotland was an independent nation for nearly a thousand years before the union in 1707. In that time , university education became free , funded easily from the scottish exchequer , and scotland had five universities when little england only had three.
This lead to the scottish enlightenment , and us scots inventing eveything you take for granted , and in time , the english ruling class cottoned onto the fact they needed to educate the ordinary english , and thus english education was born as a poor imitation of scotlands .
Prove scotland wouldnt be able to fund free university education for our people?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 12, 2023 6:51:22 GMT
On the one hand, the Scottish government claim that independence could work, while on the other they're constantly calling for more money from Westminster.
Where do they think that money will come from in an independent Scotland? You have less then 3 million taxpayers.
And yes, prior to the Act of Union, Scotland was bankrupt - as it would be post independence.
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Post by thomas on May 12, 2023 7:01:36 GMT
On the one hand, the Scottish government claim that independence could work, while on the other they're constantly calling for more money from Westminster.  |
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Post by thomas on May 12, 2023 7:05:54 GMT
Where do they think that money will come from in an independent Scotland? You have less then 3 million taxpayers. not one country in the world , and there are at least 65 to choose from , has left westmisnter control and asked to come back because they couldnt afford independence. In fact the opposite is true , with for exmaple the republic of ireland now creating wealth funds , and a gdp per head meaning they are richer than the uk.
Myth number one – Scotland was bankrupt in 1707.
Well , no, it was not.
The Burghs were cash rich and the Scottish economy in the decade prior to 1707 was growing at 2.5% per annum according to research by the historian Michael Lynch. So who was bankrupt? Well that was the Scottish land owners who had mortgaged their lands to fund the Darien Scheme and if they had not been bailed out by Westminster, the Burgh middle classes would have taken control of Scotland – something the English Government could not allow. The ‘Whig’ English Government had also been buying off the Jacobite Lords in Scotland to ensure the Hanoverian succession at the cost of a £1 million a year ( £1 billion in today’s money). Further the Jacobite Lords were playing the ‘we could ask the French for help’ card which meant ‘Horse Guards’ had to keep English Regiments on the Scottish Border that were needed by Marlborough in continental Europe to prop up England’s war against France.
What actually happened was the incoming Tory Government of the day decided they were not gaining anything as Defoe quickly reported that most of the ‘Jacobite Lords’ were unlikely to support James’ VIIth claim on the thrones of Scotland and England so shifted the bribes from the ‘Jacobite Lords’ to the Tory inclined Scottish Lowland Lords who were in trouble with their Darien mortgage repayments coming due and being in danger of defaulting – the ‘parcel o rogues’ of Burns poem. The English Parliament needed the Union to secure their Northern border once and for all and created pressure to persuade the Scots that ‘Union’ was a good idea – one of which was siding with the Spanish to ensure Darien failed and another passing laws to exclude Scottish traders from all England’s colonies by imposing excessive duties.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 12, 2023 7:06:48 GMT
"In 2021/22, public spending per person in the UK as a whole was £11,897. In England, it was £11,549 (3% below the UK average). This compares with: Scotland: £13,881 (17% above the UK average)"
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Post by thomas on May 12, 2023 7:08:14 GMT
"In 2021/22, public spending per person in the UK as a whole was £11,897. In England, it was £11,549 (3% below the UK average). This compares with: Scotland: £13,881 (17% above the UK average)"
We get more out as we pays more in squeaky. simples.
Myth number four – England Subsidises Scotland
The Treasury’s own figures show that Scotland has returned a tax surplus every year in the last 30. Last year it was £1.6 billion - not including any tax take from the North Sea - an estimated £32 billion a year from the Scottish sector. It is difficult to be precise as the actual figures for oil and gas income are hidden in the Treasury’s extra-territorial account. If you crunch the numbers you find that for every £100 that is ‘spent’ on Scotland by the UK Government, £170 is ‘spent’ in the Greater London area for the same population.
You can add the money that should have come to Scotland as part of our pocket money which the Treasury is sitting on for one pretence or another - some £500 million a year at the last counting – which still shows on the Treasury Accounts as ‘going to Scotland’.
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Post by thomas on May 12, 2023 7:10:34 GMT
. The reality is that the subsidy is in the other direction – Scottish tax receipts, thanks largely to North Sea oil, more than pay for the higher spending provided by Barnett. Impartial UK research organisation FullFact calculated that over the last three decades the subsidy from Scotland to London has been of the order of billions of pounds every year:
“If we look at how Scotland’s total tax receipts since 1980 compare with the UK’s, we can see that Scotland has contributed – as Mr Salmond notes – a surplus £222 billion in today’s prices.”
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Post by Vinny on May 12, 2023 8:58:02 GMT
"In 2021/22, public spending per person in the UK as a whole was £11,897. In England, it was £11,549 (3% below the UK average). This compares with: Scotland: £13,881 (17% above the UK average)"
Abolish the Barnett formula and go with means testing instead. Give free tuition to the poorest. High fees for the richest. |
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