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Post by Pacifico on May 8, 2023 7:41:46 GMT
Or dont people have a right to freely go about their lives without disruption from protestors? Double standards in operation here,if that is the case why so recently weren’t protesters detained before glueing themselves to the road? You still cannot answer why were people who weren’t protesters detained for hours for going about their lawful business? I agree there are double standards - and I have been vocal in calling out the lack of action by the Police to stop the disruption by ER or JSO. That doesnt mean that when the Police get it right they should be criticised again - I just hope they will uphold this new enthusiasm when it comes to these groups disrupting the lives of the average working man. |
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Post by see2 on May 8, 2023 7:44:52 GMT
Why start with such clearly unacceptable rules and laws in the past that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with the Coronation? First off apologies for the late reply got taken up a blind alley and rape alarms,anyway you think they may have nothing to do with the coronation but they are very relevant to your comments about malcontents,you may try to dismiss but you cannot make such statements about protests and bar reply,it’s like the oft used and what imo is dishonest debate shutdown by citing whataboutery. Ah I see so because I disagree I maybe want to see real extremists in office,that is obvious of course when I champion free speech and the rights of others. You aren’t understanding obviously because if you put in place things like digital ID’s you can have all the safeguards you like but the potential for misuse overt or covert activities s obvious,well to me at least. As far as your final comment I’d see the monarchy slimmed down more it’s assets removed and an annual budget given. I have not followed the debate on 'rape alarms' IMO they have nothing to do with the unreasonable behaviour of the protestors. I believe I pointed out the likelihood of extremists gaining power if the present system of 'shared power at the top' was disrupted. Right or wrong the idea of ID cards by Blair followed the Bus bomb / suicide bomber in London 2005, ID cards in 2006. An overreaction? maybe, but not without good reason. IMO with the un-asked for knowledge of individuals that is now in the public domain, ID cards would be all but defunct by now anyway. I believe movements in the direction for the Royals under Charles' will follow some of your ideas, to some extent at least. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2023 7:48:27 GMT
Clearly, we are slowly moving towards a police state
Reason number 243 to get rid of this government
"arresting someone because THEY MIGHT commit a crime" - its called Carte Blanche
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2023 7:51:28 GMT
People do have the right to go about their peaceful business, I agree but those people are not having that right 'taken away' by the protestors, it is as it has always been but protestors are having their right to protest taken away bit by bit. We do not see football crowds being moved away from football grounds because they are are creating a lot of noise, or arrested for walking in the roads holding people up going to work or ambulances going to emergencies or hospital, or stopped and search because they may have certain items on them,. We are now in a police state thanks to people 'angry' that protestors cause minor disruption to a small local area. There are over 60,000 streets in London yet these protestors want to kick off and disrupt the procession that was being held on just 2 of them. If their aim was simply 'protest' then they could have held a peaceful protest anywhere else in London and nobody would have minded in the slightest.. What is the point of protesting miles away from the 'target' of the protest, the whole idea is to be heard and seen. You are in favour of removing peoples right to protest, that's obvious but they are taking that right from you as well. |
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Post by see2 on May 8, 2023 7:54:55 GMT
Ok, blame it on the Met it is then. Meanwhile, three stabbed to death in 24 hours...
Cant beat a multicultural society, apparently... The UK has always been a multicultural society. I blame some of todays problems on the decision to take power away from parliament and to place the responsibility for actions onto the individual (referendum). It seems that nowadays more and more individuals have taken action into their own hands. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on May 8, 2023 7:56:02 GMT
Clearly, we are slowly moving towards a police state Reason number 243 to get rid of this government "arresting someone because THEY MIGHT commit a crime" - its called Carte Blanche
That's been the law for decades. Do you live under a rock?  |
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Post by sheepy on May 8, 2023 8:07:05 GMT
Well, I guess that is point proven as well, not all publicity is good publicity, especially if disrupting the majority going about their everyday business will certainly not get them on your side and having no plan in place of any kind to replace what you are protesting about, but to make their lives even more miserable, hasn't put them on your side. Or in other words you are fecked.
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Post by see2 on May 8, 2023 8:08:48 GMT
There are over 60,000 streets in London yet these protestors want to kick off and disrupt the procession that was being held on just 2 of them. If their aim was simply 'protest' then they could have held a peaceful protest anywhere else in London and nobody would have minded in the slightest.. What is the point of protesting miles away from the 'target' of the protest, the whole idea is to be heard and seen. You are in favour of removing peoples right to protest, that's obvious but they are taking that right from you as well. If we remove reasonableness, respect, consideration and good taste from society we end up in a shambolic aggressive state. No thanks. If people don't like the UK system they are free to try a different system. How about the Trump / Republican nonsense in the States? or the mindless authoritarianism of the Russian Federation? For me the old saying of "If it aint broke don't fix it" fits the UK perfectly. |
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Post by buccaneer on May 8, 2023 8:14:51 GMT
I’m not trying to be rude here but what or why did you think the Uk has freedom of speech? We’ve never had it. Edit: I agree we should btw, but without it, the govt is free to move the ‘line’ of what and when it’s acceptable to say things as it sees fit.I think this is the crux of the issue surrounding so-called freedom of speech. FWIW, I believe protestors are, or should be allowed to hold placards "Not my King". So long as it is peaceful. The problem is that when it happens on THE day of the coronation it is more likely to stoke disruption and violence. It could be a case of treating a symptom and not a cure. I have no real problems will people declaring 'Charlies is not my King' - fair enough. Though the line moving surrounding 'freedom of speech' has been shifted a lot and the topic of Islam has curtailed any notion of free speech we thought we had. I remember militant Islamists spitting bile and burning the UK flag when British soldiers returned to the UK either in coffins or able bodied after Britain's involvement in the M.E. Muslims like that Choudry bloke preaching pure hate towards a society that kept his family nicely nested on welfare benefits. This kind of freedom of speech spurred on a backlash and then you had people like Tommy Robinson on the opposite divide of Choudry. But the Lefties only had it in for Robinson and folk of that ilk (who are no angels), and ensured FoS was supressed under the notion of "Islamophobia". The government and authorities swing with the narrative of the day ( LBGTQ ++ alphabet people) until there is pressure from counter-groups who say 'hang-on this ideology is madness and running free like norm in society unabated needs questioning), though it is usually these types who have their freedom of speech curtailed before antagonists like militant Islamists or trans ideologists do. I think the Left have suppressed FoS via identity politics, the establishment also do this surrounding particular events like the Coronation. It's an ever moving line depending on 'who' and 'what'. In that respect, that's what the establishment and the Left have in common. |
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2023 8:25:12 GMT
What is the point of protesting miles away from the 'target' of the protest, the whole idea is to be heard and seen. You are in favour of removing peoples right to protest, that's obvious but they are taking that right from you as well. If we remove reasonableness, respect, consideration and good taste from society we end up in a shambolic aggressive state. No thanks. If people don't like the UK system they are free to try a different system. How about the Trump / Republican nonsense in the States? or the mindless authoritarianism of the Russian Federation? For me the old saying of "If it aint broke don't fix it" fits the UK perfectly. What are you talking about?? You are saying that protests have always been 'removed' from the source of the protest, are you attempting to rewrite history. Russia is the mother of banned protests. |
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2023 8:26:22 GMT
it was all over scotlands media a few days back . Scottish labour denied it of course , while the snp demanded that the branch manager come clean in scotland about his bosses wish to impose tuition fees on scotland same as england.
of course , we all know with labours flip flopping on every issues they cant be trusted. Which scots are going to take the chance that labour are lying to them? Not many i think.
Labours problem with scotland and england in a nutshell .Trying and failing to face two ways at the same time , and the public see through them. Whcih is why you have been out of power in scotland since 2007 , and at westmisnter since 2010.
Your problem is that you take what appears to be other peoples lies and insinuations as facts. "Scottish labour denied it of course". For the sake of your own credibility provide the unequivocal proof that Labour has said it would introduce tuition fees in Scotland. You imply the labour party would not want to impose tuition fees on scotland. So lets look at the facts.
You are asking scots to trust keir starmer , a man who has publicly and humiliatingly made a disasterous u turn on his well publicised pledge to end tuition fees in england. you are asking scots to trust the labour party who imposed tuition fees in wales , the one country where they have been in power of education since devolution began 24 years ago. You are asking scots to trust labour who imposed tuition fees in scotland when they were last in power.
Keir starmer as we know is the boss of labour not anas sarwar. Anas sarwar does what keir tells him to. We know this as every single labour branch manager in scotland wendy alexander , johann lamont kezia dugdale etc etc has complained of a lack of autonomy from london . Anas sarwar was publicly overruled by starmer regarding brexit .
So for the sake of what little credibility remains to you on this forum , based on the evidence above , provide proof new labour would not introduce tuition fees into scotland , and tell us why we should trust a man , keir starmer , who breaks his pledges more often then you break wind when you talk.?
The facts about the history of tuition fees in Scotland are stark and unarguable:
– in 1997 when Labour came to power, higher education was free.
– the Labour government then introduced fees of £1000 a year across the UK, which meant a four-year degree in Scotland suddenly cost £4000.
– in 2000, the Labour-led Scottish Executive replaced said fees with a “graduate endowment”, meaning that Scottish students paid £2000 retrospectively towards the cost of their education – half of what it had cost them under Labour’s fees system in 1999, but still £2000 more than the £0 they’d been paying in 1997.
In the space of three years, then, while claiming to have “abolished” tuition fees, Labour had in fact increased the cost of a degree in Scotland from zero to £2000. Those are the cold, hard, unyielding truths.
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2023 8:28:27 GMT
That's exactly how powers of arrest work, Wonky. Arrest on suspicion... Sheesh, you really don't know anything about anything do you? ABSOLUTELLY NOT - you cannot and must never arrest people because "they might commit an offence" You state utter bull shit - and we do not live in North Korea or Russia. sure so why do labour support this protest bill and refuse to end it if they gain power according to lammy? |
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Post by thomas on May 8, 2023 8:33:08 GMT
Protesting is part of our 'culture' but you appear 'happy' that that right is not protected. The 'establishment may have shot themselves in the foot with this one, the protests are getting much more coverage now than they would have had the police not been so draconian. Protesting is part of our culture and so is respect. The agitators showed disrespect in buckets full, proving just what a bunch of idiotic, minority of whingers wanting things their own way, they are. im not surprised see 2 you take the stance in supporting this anti protest legislation.
All of us can remember the bonfire of civil liberties in the uk the last time new labour were in charge.
The shocking truth about the erosion of our fundamental civil liberties by Tony Blair's government will be exposed this summer in TAKING LIBERTIES, released on DVD in the UK cinemas by Revolver Entertainment October 15th 2007. Right to Protest, Right to Freedom of Speech. Right to Privacy. Right not to be detained without charge, Innocent Until Proven Guilty. Prohibition from Torture. TAKING LIBERTIES will reveal how these six central pillars of liberty have been systematically destroyed by New Labour, and the freedoms of the British people stolen from under their noses amidst a climate of fear created by the media and government itself. TAKING LIBERTIES uncovers the stories the government don't want you to hear -- so ridiculous you will laugh, so ultimately terrifying you will want to take action. Teenage sisters detained for 36 hours for a peaceful protest; an RAF war veteran arrested for wearing an anti-Bush and Blair T-shirt; an innocent man shot in a police raid; and a man held under house arrest for two years, after being found innocent in court. Ordinary law-abiding citizens being punished for exercising their 'rights' -- rights that have been fought for over centuries, and which seem to have been extinguished in a decade.
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Post by johnofgwent on May 8, 2023 8:44:16 GMT
You never answered my earlier post sid. So what do you think ? Will labour be propped up to rule over england by the SNP at the next election ?
No - thats my opinion in a nutshell Kier Starmer will not be held to ransome by the SNP in their pursuit of another referendum, I am certain of that. But what I would say is that in January 2020, a few weeks after the 2019 general election, things looked pretty bleak for Labour, a humiliating defeat and a huge Conservative majority, no one in their heart of hearts believed that Labour could turn things around by the time of the 2024 general election. But bit by bit, slownly but steadily, Kier Starmer has transformed Labour, and winning the general election next year IS well within reach. Voting is always different in local elections as compared to a general election, the locals say 9% lead ( which takes us to Labour been the largest party ), but 15% in National Polls ( a Labour majority ). If Starmer makes the same progress in the final 17 / 18 months, as over ther last three and a half years, then you will kiss the Tories goodbye. But heres the other thing ... whats actually going to happen to the SNP ? www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23499037.labour-pull-ahead-snp-regional-list-vote-according-new-poll/Well yes its easy for a party leader to say now they absolutely wont do a deal, but experience in Wales and in 2010 leads me to a distinct scepticism Ironically Salmand brought the current situation on Scotland on himself. Back in 2010 Brown was trying to cling to power and Jeremy Vine did an amazing swingometer cgi session to show it was JUST possible. Clegg was faced with the fact Mike German had been propping up Rhodri Morgan for years after Labour pissed the safest seat in Wales, and their majority in the Assembly, up the wall with their insane antics over all woman shortlists in Ebbw Vale so LimDem/Lab pact in London was on the cards and only a Sinn Fein about turn and decision to take the oath and sit in Lindon could screw the numbers -IF Salmand would join the coalition. Salmand promised only a day to day informal arrangement conditional upon bribery not seen apart from the welsh tories bung to Mohammed Asghar to stop being the Cottage Burner’s only ethnic AM and become a Tory one instead Brown was still working out how much that would cost when Clegg decided this was madness and bent over for Cameron to repeat his Pig Appreciation Performance with him and tbe rest is history as they say Looking at tbe SNP’s current state, does not the Bobby Sands exclusion principle apply ? I think they still bang people up for fraud on the scale we seem to be getting told… |
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Post by johnofgwent on May 8, 2023 8:49:24 GMT
Posters are dealing with Froth and Spin here - NOT the real issue Why were protesters, who had done absolutelly nothing wrong, arrested and put behind bars until after the coronation was over with. ? This is the troubling question at hand We know why Because they had said they were determined to do something. That’s it. That plus being so bloody stupid as to use materials that could be used to lock oneself on to an immovable object as part of their protest equipment. It’s a fair bet these fuckers are the same ones who stop boy scouts wearing their sheath knives with their uniform on St georges Day parades as i was allowed to in the height of the IRA bombings so they brought this on themselves. |
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