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Post by zanygame on Oct 30, 2022 8:41:23 GMT
What aged 4 years? When he came to Britain? Of course they would, most youngsters know what is right and what is wrong from a very early age. So are you stating they are sub-human? Don't try and put words in my mouth. Most children know right from wrong aged 4, that doesn't mean they don't turn to crime aged 18. TBH that is one of the most stupid arguments I have EVER seen put on here. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 30, 2022 8:47:41 GMT
That has absolutely nothing to do with human rights. You cannot force UK convicts onto foreign countries, just because they were born there. When they were born they were not a criminal. In the case you cite. The man had lived in the UK since he was 4 years old and had been granted indefinite right to remain. He was not a Jamaican Yardie when aged 4 years. He became a criminal while living in the UK. So he is our problem. The fact our government tried to use the fact that aged 18 he had not completed the application as an excuse to hand the problem to Jamaica is disgusting and typical of the un-respectful place we have become. That human rights lawyers had to find their own loop hole to make us take responsibility for our own criminals is very sad. The guy was a Jamaican citizen - we have no liability to look after Jamaican citizens. Only by mistake as I pointed out. He was a home bred criminal as he arrived here aged 4 years. I find it disgusting that you agree that you can pass off our criminals to another country. Where has our pride gone. Yes I read the link, I assumed the only bit you had focused on was the right to deport him, so I didn't repeat it for you. He was brought here aged 4, he is OUR criminal, WE made him a criminal Jamaica did not. WE should not be trying to deport him, I am ashamed of what we have become. |
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Post by jonksy on Oct 30, 2022 8:59:04 GMT
Of course they would, most youngsters know what is right and what is wrong from a very early age. So are you stating they are sub-human? Don't try and put words in my mouth. Most children know right from wrong aged 4, that doesn't mean they don't turn to crime aged 18. TBH that is one of the most stupid arguments I have EVER seen put on here. I am not trying to put words in your mouth. All humans know what is right and wrong at an early age unless they are sub-human.
Why is my arguenment stupid? You are the one who is advocating that they should remain here if they commit these crimes and the UK tax payers have to pick up the tab. If anyone moves to another country they should be gracious enough to accept that countries hospitality and abide by the law of the land.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 30, 2022 9:22:40 GMT
Don't try and put words in my mouth. Most children know right from wrong aged 4, that doesn't mean they don't turn to crime aged 18. TBH that is one of the most stupid arguments I have EVER seen put on here. I am not trying to put words in your mouth. All humans know what is right and wrong at an early age unless they are sub-human.
Why is my arguenment stupid? You are the one who is advocating that they should remain here if they commit these crimes and the UK tax payers have to pick up the tab. If anyone moves to another country they should be gracious enough to accept that countries hospitality and abide by the law of the land.
Its a stupid argument because how a child is aged 4 bares very little reference to how they are as an adult. If you can tell which 4 year olds will become criminals please give us your list. I am advocating VERY CLEARLY The man had lived in the UK since he was 4 years old and had been granted indefinite right to remain. He was not a Jamaican Yardie when aged 4 years. He became a criminal while living in the UK. So he is our problem. We made him a criminal, not Jamaica. Jamaica had absolutely nothing to do with his upbringing or criminality. We are a bunch of lazy self interested yuks who think its OK to pass our problems onto another country if we can legally get away with it. Shame on this Government and those that support this behaviour. |
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Post by jonksy on Oct 30, 2022 9:29:17 GMT
I am not trying to put words in your mouth. All humans know what is right and wrong at an early age unless they are sub-human.
Why is my arguenment stupid? You are the one who is advocating that they should remain here if they commit these crimes and the UK tax payers have to pick up the tab. If anyone moves to another country they should be gracious enough to accept that countries hospitality and abide by the law of the land.
Its a stupid argument because how a child is aged 4 bares very little reference to how they are as an adult. If you can tell which 4 year olds will become criminals please give us your list. I am advocating VERY CLEARLY The man had lived in the UK since he was 4 years old and had been granted indefinite right to remain. He was not a Jamaican Yardie when aged 4 years. He became a criminal while living in the UK. So he is our problem. We made him a criminal, not Jamaica. Jamaica had absolutely nothing to do with his upbringing or criminality. We are a bunch of lazy self interested yuks who think its OK to pass our problems onto another country if we can legally get away with it. Shame on this Government and those that support this behaviour. Can you give a list of those who are not?
It's this leniency on our part that has got us into this mess, but then that would require a thread all of it's own.
Keep digging.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 30, 2022 9:41:05 GMT
Its a stupid argument because If you can tell which 4 year olds will become criminals please give us your list. I am advocating VERY CLEARLY The man had lived in the UK since he was 4 years old and had been granted indefinite right to remain. He was not a Jamaican Yardie when aged 4 years. He became a criminal while living in the UK. So he is our problem. We made him a criminal, not Jamaica. Jamaica had absolutely nothing to do with his upbringing or criminality. We are a bunch of lazy self interested yuks who think its OK to pass our problems onto another country if we can legally get away with it. Shame on this Government and those that support this behaviour. Can you give a list of those who are not?
It's this leniency on our part that has got us into this mess, but then that would require a thread all of it's own.
Keep digging.
No of course I can't. As "I said how a child is aged 4 bares very little reference to how they are as an adult." Sigh. What leniency? |
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Post by thomas on Oct 30, 2022 9:49:15 GMT
I am not trying to put words in your mouth. All humans know what is right and wrong at an early age unless they are sub-human.
Why is my arguenment stupid? You are the one who is advocating that they should remain here if they commit these crimes and the UK tax payers have to pick up the tab. If anyone moves to another country they should be gracious enough to accept that countries hospitality and abide by the law of the land.
The man had lived in the UK since he was 4 years old and had been granted indefinite right to remain. He was not a Jamaican Yardie when aged 4 years. He became a criminal while living in the UK. So he is our problem. We made him a criminal, not Jamaica. Jamaica had absolutely nothing to do with his upbringing or criminality. Dont agree with you at all that place of birth is irrelevant becuase the uk was where this guy lived during his formative years.
Place of birth is one of the most important pieces of info on a modern day passport. You derive your passport , entry into countries at their borders , and many other important and legal rights because of where you were born.
while i fuly agree with you upbringing can and often does determine criminality , the uk has every legal right to deport foreign born criminals back to their place of birth.
For context the number of deportations of people and of course foreign criminals is on the rise across the eu for example , with germany france and greece among the highest.
EU border agency deported record number of people in first half of 2021
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Post by jonksy on Oct 30, 2022 9:53:55 GMT
Can you give a list of those who are not?
It's this leniency on our part that has got us into this mess, but then that would require a thread all of it's own.
Keep digging.
No of course I can't. As "I said how a child is aged 4 bares very little reference to how they are as an adult." Sigh. What leniency? The leniency not afforded to us when we visit or move to other other countries. But like I have stated that requires a thread all of it's own. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 30, 2022 10:32:31 GMT
They have a right to come here based on their human rights, we have no right to refuse them based on their human rights, we have no ability to get eject them, once again based on their human rights. The entire 'dump criminals into the UK population regardless of the views of the UK people' arrangement is rationalised at every step with the 'human rights' of the people involved. Little mention is made of the human rights of UK residents though Which is why it's time to scrap the HRA. |
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Post by borchester on Oct 30, 2022 11:11:11 GMT
Right now, a great mind (probably mine) is thinking if I do things this way, the job will get done cheaper and faster and everybody can spend more time doing what they want to do than something they don't. The result is an increase in the standard of living and has been going on since we came down out of the trees.
Our standard of living is increasing all the time and there isn't much we can do to stop it.
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Post by Equivocal on Oct 30, 2022 11:56:10 GMT
Dont agree with you at all that place of birth is irrelevant becuase the uk was where this guy lived during his formative years.
Place of birth is one of the most important pieces of info on a modern day passport. You derive your passport , entry into countries at their borders , and many other important and legal rights because of where you were born.
while i fuly agree with you upbringing can and often does determine criminality , the uk has every legal right to deport foreign born criminals back to their place of birth.
For context the number of deportations of people and of course foreign criminals is on the rise across the eu for example , with germany france and greece among the highest.
EU border agency deported record number of people in first half of 2021
That's quite right, but right to nationality also derives from the parent(s)' nationality.
In this case the man was born outside the UK to a non-UK national mother and a UK national father. Had his parents been married he would have been entitled, without condition, to UK nationality. Similarly, had his mother been a UK national or if he had been born a few years later he would have had the same entitlement.
Essentially, all that happened in this case was to remove the disadvantage the man suffered as a result of his parents being unmarried and to bring his status in line with others born in the same circumstances a few years later.
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Post by thomas on Oct 30, 2022 12:00:04 GMT
Dont agree with you at all that place of birth is irrelevant becuase the uk was where this guy lived during his formative years.
Place of birth is one of the most important pieces of info on a modern day passport. You derive your passport , entry into countries at their borders , and many other important and legal rights because of where you were born.
while i fuly agree with you upbringing can and often does determine criminality , the uk has every legal right to deport foreign born criminals back to their place of birth.
For context the number of deportations of people and of course foreign criminals is on the rise across the eu for example , with germany france and greece among the highest.
EU border agency deported record number of people in first half of 2021
That's quite right, but right to nationality also derives from the parent(s)' nationality.
In this case the man was born outside the UK to a non-UK national mother and a UK national father. Had his parents been married he would have been entitled, without condition, to UK nationality. Similarly, had his mother been a UK national or if he had been born a few years later he would have had the same entitlement.
Essentially, all that happened in this case was to remove the disadvantage the man suffered as a result of his parents being unmarried and to bring his status in line with others born in the same circumstances a few years later.
Thanks for clarifying that , i didnt realise he had UK ancestry.
I was though simply disagreeing with what appeared to be zanys point regarding the irrelevance of place of birth. Having a uk national father as you say further complicates the matter.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 30, 2022 12:44:21 GMT
That's quite right, but right to nationality also derives from the parent(s)' nationality.
In this case the man was born outside the UK to a non-UK national mother and a UK national father. Had his parents been married he would have been entitled, without condition, to UK nationality. Similarly, had his mother been a UK national or if he had been born a few years later he would have had the same entitlement.
Essentially, all that happened in this case was to remove the disadvantage the man suffered as a result of his parents being unmarried and to bring his status in line with others born in the same circumstances a few years later.
Thanks for clarifying that , i didnt realise he had UK ancestry.
I was though simply disagreeing with what appeared to be zanys point regarding the irrelevance of place of birth. Having a uk national father as you say further complicates the matter.
In that case we had a misunderstanding Thomas. For I did know the boys father was British and assumed you did. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 30, 2022 18:37:19 GMT
Right now, a great mind (probably mine) is thinking if I do things this way, the job will get done cheaper and faster and everybody can spend more time doing what they want to do than something they don't. The result is an increase in the standard of living and has been going on since we came down out of the trees.
Our standard of living is increasing all the time and there isn't much we can do to stop it.
There is a false economy though. When I moved in this house I had the habit of doing things quickly and cheaply. For example, why pay £20 for a pot of paint when the local shop was selling the paint for £10. After 5 years I realised my mistake as the paint had turned from brilliant white to a sickly yellow colour. Using the more expensive paint 40 years ago my parent's decor looked better than mine after five. So there you go - shopping in Blighty is like trespassing on enemy territory - they are out to get you in any which way they can. Bastards! |
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Post by see2 on Nov 3, 2022 22:14:17 GMT
Right now, a great mind (probably mine) is thinking if I do things this way, the job will get done cheaper and faster and everybody can spend more time doing what they want to do than something they don't. The result is an increase in the standard of living and has been going on since we came down out of the trees.
Our standard of living is increasing all the time and there isn't much we can do to stop it.
There is a false economy though. When I moved in this house I had the habit of doing things quickly and cheaply. For example, why pay £20 for a pot of paint when the local shop was selling the paint for £10. After 5 years I realised my mistake as the paint had turned from brilliant white to a sickly yellow colour. Using the more expensive paint 40 years ago my parent's decor looked better than mine after five. So there you go - shopping in Blighty is like trespassing on enemy territory - they are out to get you in any which way they can. Bastards! Not really, I bet most people understand that in terms of quality, you get what you pay for. |
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