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Post by zanygame on Oct 28, 2022 17:56:48 GMT
There are already hefty fines for businesses not checking someones right to employment in the UK. So I wonder where these people are working? Not saying they are not, but it wont be in anywhere that's checking ID. Hand car wash - Turkish barbers - American sweet shops... Not sure there is much checking going on.. Agreed, so ID cards aren't the answer. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 28, 2022 17:58:33 GMT
I don't doubt illegal activities (county lines etc) make up a number of jobs, but surely not 38,000? |
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Post by patman post on Oct 28, 2022 18:19:04 GMT
One of the biggest complaints from within the NHS is that private health care is only affordable because as soon as anything goes wrong the patient is handed back to the NHS Hence my all for greater supervision of the use of one by the other. But unless you specify which are the procedures require NHS intervention because private treatment goes wrong, forgive me if I regard your comment as unsubstantiated mouthing off… |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 28, 2022 18:49:02 GMT
One of the biggest complaints from within the NHS is that private health care is only affordable because as soon as anything goes wrong the patient is handed back to the NHS Hence my all for greater supervision of the use of one by the other. But unless you specify which are the procedures require NHS intervention because private treatment goes wrong, forgive me if I regard your comment as unsubstantiated mouthing off… My wife was a neuro radiographer for 30 years, towards the end of her employment (before she joined my company) she regularly did scans for private patients that were pointless (but increased the bill) she also had the same consultants treating private patients then joining the team at the hospital as the patient was rushed in for emergency treatment. Heart attacks, blood clots, breathing problems, anything beyond the basic op moved to the NHS without consequence or charge. Why? Because all those private patients were also NHS patients, never mind that they would not be there without their private op. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 28, 2022 18:58:50 GMT
Ah now I understand your point Zany. Once people are granted asylum, they are expected to leave their state provided housing within four weeks and at that stage they must find and fund their own housing and find work etc just like anyone else. If I have understood you right it seems you wish to create a special class of resident who is limited by the state in where they choose to live. Haven't heard that argument before to be honest. What problem are you trying to solve That's not entirely true Dappy. No one expects a successful asylum seeker to become self supporting after just 4 weeks, its just that other benefits kick in instead. The thing I'm trying to resolve is the cost of providing asylum which would be considerably cheaper in some areas than others. And also that certain areas of the UK have struggling infrastructure and others don't. A step short of sending them to Rwanda if you like, a compromise. Sorry Zany, I get your aim but I think you have got your wires crossed a little. When people get awarded asylum and hence become refugees they have to leave their state provided (usually very poor quality) accommodation within 28 days. They can apply for council accommodation but unless they have kids, they are extremely unlikely to be granted it. So they have to find and fund somewhere private to live (or quite often be temporarily accommodated by friends or extended family). They can get a loan to pay for flat deposit but that’s about it. They may be eligible for universal credit but that doesn’t vary by region. I struggle to see how the state telling refugees where to live and work would save money as you suggest. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 28, 2022 19:03:01 GMT
I don't doubt illegal activities (county lines etc) make up a number of jobs, but surely not 38,000? As I read Dan’s post he is suggesting that a subsection of the 10000 Albanians abscond to work illegally. I dare say there is black market work available for them in less legitimate businesses. The problem here as I said above that for these people if you cut off the small boat route, they will simply revert to other entry methods - eg lorries and shipping containers. Not clear how to stop that. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 28, 2022 19:03:13 GMT
I don't doubt illegal activities (county lines etc) make up a number of jobs, but surely not 38,000? As I read Dan’s post he is suggesting that a subsection of the 10000 Albanians abscond to work illegally. I dare say there is black market work available for them in less legitimate businesses. The problem here as I said above that for these people if you cut off the small boat route, they will simply revert to other entry methods - eg lorries and shipping containers. Not clear how to stop that. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 28, 2022 19:06:24 GMT
Hence my all for greater supervision of the use of one by the other. But unless you specify which are the procedures require NHS intervention because private treatment goes wrong, forgive me if I regard your comment as unsubstantiated mouthing off… My wife was a neuro radiographer for 30 years, towards the end of her employment (before she joined my company) she regularly did scans for private patients that were pointless (but increased the bill) she also had the same consultants treating private patients then joining the team at the hospital as the patient was rushed in for emergency treatment. Heart attacks, blood clots, breathing problems, anything beyond the basic op moved to the NHS without consequence or charge. Why? Because all those private patients were also NHS patients, never mind that they would not be there without their private op. Are you saying becasue they went private they should be excluded from the Universal health care we all pay for including them? The whole point is we accept people are treated irrespective of what action they or others took beforehand. We would not exclude a druggie from treatment after taking a bad hit would we? |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 28, 2022 20:46:22 GMT
That's not entirely true Dappy. No one expects a successful asylum seeker to become self supporting after just 4 weeks, its just that other benefits kick in instead. The thing I'm trying to resolve is the cost of providing asylum which would be considerably cheaper in some areas than others. And also that certain areas of the UK have struggling infrastructure and others don't. A step short of sending them to Rwanda if you like, a compromise. Sorry Zany, I get your aim but I think you have got your wires crossed a little. When people get awarded asylum and hence become refugees they have to leave their state provided (usually very poor quality) accommodation within 28 days. They can apply for council accommodation but unless they have kids, they are extremely unlikely to be granted it. So they have to find and fund somewhere private to live (or quite often be temporarily accommodated by friends or extended family). They can get a loan to pay for flat deposit but that’s about it. They may be eligible for universal credit but that doesn’t vary by region. I struggle to see how the state telling refugees where to live and work would save money as you suggest. No, I think you are agreeing with me, whilst seeming to correct me. You say they may be eligible for universal credit. I say yes and housing benefit and any other benefit a British citizen can receive. Why not they are British citizens. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 28, 2022 20:47:46 GMT
I don't doubt illegal activities (county lines etc) make up a number of jobs, but surely not 38,000? As I read Dan’s post he is suggesting that a subsection of the 10000 Albanians abscond to work illegally. I dare say there is black market work available for them in less legitimate businesses. The problem here as I said above that for these people if you cut off the small boat route, they will simply revert to other entry methods - eg lorries and shipping containers. Not clear how to stop that. You appear to be offering the solution of do nothing and just accept it? |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 28, 2022 20:52:37 GMT
My wife was a neuro radiographer for 30 years, towards the end of her employment (before she joined my company) she regularly did scans for private patients that were pointless (but increased the bill) she also had the same consultants treating private patients then joining the team at the hospital as the patient was rushed in for emergency treatment. Heart attacks, blood clots, breathing problems, anything beyond the basic op moved to the NHS without consequence or charge. Why? Because all those private patients were also NHS patients, never mind that they would not be there without their private op. Are you saying becasue they went private they should be excluded from the Universal health care we all pay for including them? The whole point is we accept people are treated irrespective of what action they or others took beforehand. We would not exclude a druggie from treatment after taking a bad hit would we? I am saying that they would not have burdened the NHS had they not jumped the queue and had private treatment. If you want to pay for private health care, fine, but then pay for it properly, not a cheap offer backed by a free NHS service. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 28, 2022 21:31:32 GMT
Hand car wash - Turkish barbers - American sweet shops... Not sure there is much checking going on.. Agreed, so ID cards aren't the answer. Which is what I already said  |
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Post by dappy on Oct 28, 2022 22:39:12 GMT
Sorry Zany, I get your aim but I think you have got your wires crossed a little. When people get awarded asylum and hence become refugees they have to leave their state provided (usually very poor quality) accommodation within 28 days. They can apply for council accommodation but unless they have kids, they are extremely unlikely to be granted it. So they have to find and fund somewhere private to live (or quite often be temporarily accommodated by friends or extended family). They can get a loan to pay for flat deposit but that’s about it. They may be eligible for universal credit but that doesn’t vary by region. I struggle to see how the state telling refugees where to live and work would save money as you suggest. No, I think you are agreeing with me, whilst seeming to correct me. You say they may be eligible for universal credit. I say yes and housing benefit and any other benefit a British citizen can receive. Why not they are British citizens. Zany, with the greatest respect your point seems to be evolving at such pace that I have lost touch with what it now is. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 28, 2022 22:41:06 GMT
As I read Dan’s post he is suggesting that a subsection of the 10000 Albanians abscond to work illegally. I dare say there is black market work available for them in less legitimate businesses. The problem here as I said above that for these people if you cut off the small boat route, they will simply revert to other entry methods - eg lorries and shipping containers. Not clear how to stop that. You appear to be offering the solution of do nothing and just accept it? I am afraid I don’t have a solution to how to stop people working in the UK illegally. Do you? |
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Post by dodgydave on Oct 29, 2022 1:51:52 GMT
Well there seems to be little difference between Scotland and England's health service. Lets not forget that we had a tory right wing Government for the past 12yrs who has not funded the English NHS has much has they should. Plus less Doctors/Nurses and a decline in Beds and a social care service not fit for purpose. Trying to compair a right wing government to a left wing Government over public spending is like comparison between Apple and a pear. And talkin about labour Governance of Scotland and the Scottish NHS wasn't the the funding much more than it is now. Under labour Governance the funding was something like 22%. Has for the elder Generation life expectancy is higher in England then Scotland You see, there you go again. Dishonest arguments. You talk about austerity without mentioning the massive debts caused by the financial crisis lol. The Tories did not simply decide to have austerity for no good reason!! Austerity happened all over the EU because of the massive debts racked up during 2007/08. Please please please, somebody present a credible left-wing argument for once. Not a single country IN THE WORLD has great public services without HIGH TAXES FOR ALL, yet somehow you are going to magically achieve it by "taxing the rich more" lol. I will tell you exactly what is going to happen. Labour will win the next election and tinker around the edges, and everybody will be disappointed because their lives are not noticeable better as promised. All because, they have a fundamentally dishonest proposition. Starmer has boxed himself in. Instead of making the case for a Nordic style system, high taxes, high spend, he is running on fiscal responsibility... lol. |
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