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Post by Pacifico on May 1, 2023 6:55:23 GMT
It's funny but over the decades when Health spending, as a proportion of GDP, was below our European neighbours it was trotted out by supporters of the NHS as a reason for its poor performance - If only we brought our spending up to the European average they would cry, and then the NHS would be the envy of the world. Well now it is up to the European average (still the NHS is not the envy of the world) and yet suddenly measuring health spending as a proportion of GDP is bunk. What will the excuse be next time? Only by ignoring everything that has been pointed out to you, can you make such a statement. So I assume your argument has run out. No. my argument is the same as it ever was - as soon as spending hits the target and nothing improves the target is moved.. |
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Post by zanygame on May 1, 2023 7:25:24 GMT
Only by ignoring everything that has been pointed out to you, can you make such a statement. So I assume your argument has run out. No. my argument is the same as it ever was - as soon as spending hits the target and nothing improves the target is moved.. Precisely. Your argument is the same as it ever was despite everything you have been told on here. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 1, 2023 7:43:18 GMT
No. my argument is the same as it ever was - as soon as spending hits the target and nothing improves the target is moved.. Precisely. Your argument is the same as it ever was despite everything you have been told on here. Hey - it's not my fault that your arguments fail to hold water. When UK health spending was below other countries as a proportion of GDP nobody had an issue with highlighting that. Now you are telling me that measure is bunk - well how convenient..  Here is the Kings Fund comparing health spending back in 2016 - see what measure they are using.  |
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Post by zanygame on May 1, 2023 16:38:28 GMT
Precisely. Your argument is the same as it ever was despite everything you have been told on here. Lol. Even by measuring against GDP we still fall way behind France. So then you switch to Australia where they provide a far lower range of services for the money. And you have the cheek to say my arguments fail to hold water, I'm not the one who has to keep switching comparisons as they get shot down. Anyone with half a brain can see the only reason we manage the median is because the bottom 3 languish so far behind the norm. And the Kings fund are showing what percentage we spend in this chart, they are not showing what you get for your money. do the Kings fund think the NHS is properly funded? Of course they don't. Here's how the OECD show it. Either way we're way behind the countries to chose to compare to. Per person France spends £3737 per person. Uk spends £2989.00 25% less
In GDP we would need to spend and extra £29Bn a year more to match them. Think how many Doctors and Nurses £29Bn could pay for. (Hint around 600,000)  |
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Post by Pacifico on May 1, 2023 16:49:02 GMT
Why are you using a chart from 2017? - since then our spending has risen to the extent that we are now above most countries in Europe and slightly (very slightly) behind France.
In 2020 we spent 12% GDP and France spent 12.2% - we are spending more than Austria, Switzerland, Holland etc etc.
Try being honest.
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Post by zanygame on May 1, 2023 17:03:00 GMT
Why are you using a chart from 2017? - since then our spending has risen to the extent that we are now above most countries in Europe and slightly (very slightly) behind France. In 2020 we spent 12% GDP and France spent 12.2% - we are spending more than Austria, Switzerland, Holland etc etc. Try being honest. Lol. Your chart was from 2016. In 2020 we still had Covid. Try being honest. Year 2020/2021 it was back down to 9% That's 192Bn out of a GDP of 2,230Bn |
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Post by sheepy on May 1, 2023 17:15:09 GMT
Why are you using a chart from 2017? - since then our spending has risen to the extent that we are now above most countries in Europe and slightly (very slightly) behind France. In 2020 we spent 12% GDP and France spent 12.2% - we are spending more than Austria, Switzerland, Holland etc etc. Try being honest. Lol. Your chart was from 2016. In 2020 we still had Covid. Try being honest. Year 2020/2021 it was back down to 9% That's 192Bn out of a GDP of 2,230Bn Go on then Zany, I will have a nibble, so lets say we go for your suggestion of more money is always the answer, where a country who has a debt mountain where does one find said funds? |
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Post by see2 on May 1, 2023 17:15:15 GMT
Why are you using a chart from 2017? - since then our spending has risen to the extent that we are now above most countries in Europe and slightly (very slightly) behind France. In 2020 we spent 12% GDP and France spent 12.2% - we are spending more than Austria, Switzerland, Holland etc etc. Try being honest. 2020, that would be the Covid year where the government were forced to do a quick catch-up on spending. IMO you are THE most dishonest poster on the forum. |
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Post by Pacifico on May 1, 2023 17:22:16 GMT
Why are you using a chart from 2017? - since then our spending has risen to the extent that we are now above most countries in Europe and slightly (very slightly) behind France. In 2020 we spent 12% GDP and France spent 12.2% - we are spending more than Austria, Switzerland, Holland etc etc. Try being honest. Lol. Your chart was from 2016. Yes - because I was making the point that before there was no reluctance to use Proportion of GDP as a measure of Health spending. Now that does not give the answer that some are looking for, you suddenly want to stop using it. I am sure that if we move to a different criteria that will again be ditched when it doesnt give you the answer you are looking for. No - it was 11.9% |
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Post by Pacifico on May 1, 2023 17:23:29 GMT
Why are you using a chart from 2017? - since then our spending has risen to the extent that we are now above most countries in Europe and slightly (very slightly) behind France. In 2020 we spent 12% GDP and France spent 12.2% - we are spending more than Austria, Switzerland, Holland etc etc. Try being honest. 2020, that would be the Covid year where the government were forced to do a quick catch-up on spending. IMO you are THE most dishonest poster on the forum. You heard it here first folks - the UK was the only government in the world that spent extra on Covid..  |
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Post by sheepy on May 1, 2023 17:47:56 GMT
PS once you have given it much thought, and a real alternative of funds arises, don't forget Ned can do figures in his head correctly before you write them down. Well, that is a bit of an exaggeration but he is very good.
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Post by zanygame on May 1, 2023 18:33:39 GMT
Lol. Your chart was from 2016. In 2020 we still had Covid. Try being honest. Year 2020/2021 it was back down to 9% That's 192Bn out of a GDP of 2,230Bn Go on then Zany, I will have a nibble, so lets say we go for your suggestion of more money is always the answer, where a country who has a debt mountain where does one find said funds? Firstly. This was not about finding the money, it was about admitting we spend less than those we are being compared to. Its OK to say we accept a poorer service if we think other things are more important, so long as we accept that. Its also important to understand that privatisation does not bring the same services for less money, every privatised system costs more per person. That said. I will try to answer. We have in this country an enormous wealth gap. A large proportion of people like myself can afford 4 or 5 holidays a year, nice food, luxury cars, clothes etc. I think we could easily afford more tax without any real effect on our lifestyle. And I'm not even talking about the super rich. There, I've said it. |
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