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Post by Vinny on Apr 27, 2023 8:26:46 GMT
Democracy doesn't get a chance to actually speak very often it is completely out of the hands of the electorate, once it was given the opportunity what you should have done is listened for once, but instead like a good dog you still believed you could beat actual democracy by trying to buck it. Still do. The establishment didn't hold all the cars for once and they are losing ground in one way or another daily because of the attitude they send you out with. You seem to imply that democracy is a one off event. Of course you are very wrong, it is an ongoing process. You know full well that between the Maastricht Treaty getting signed in 1992 and our vote to leave in 2016, there was a massive gap, a void in which there was no democratic vote on membership. I don't see you complaining about the lack of democracy that existed for most of the time we were members. Of course there should be more votes on membership, let's hold another referendum in 2036. It's only 13 years away, and another in 2056. And then again in 2076. Every 20 years. I don't see us going back unless the EU undergoes massive reform. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 27, 2023 8:51:38 GMT
I wish I was in a position to have stopped Brexit. Unfortunately, despite my many skills, I was unable to do so. I'll still continue to oppose it though. Which is the problem. You are of course free to oppose the principle but some actually oppose the effective working of the principle in any way they can. Take it as a left fork and a right fork in the road that we all travel on. The democratic process, with all its flaws, decided to take the right fork. All the wagon train should move off along the right fork and work to take that route. Some are not doing that they are perceived to be poisoning the water holes along the right fork, killing the oxen on the lead wagon, trying to divert the wagons across to the left fork still visible. Consent is important because it needs all to work for any given option even if they disagree with that option. If you were a factory owner and you allowed your workforce to decide whether to build a car or a motorbike you would be pretty put out if on deciding to make a car some people were still producing handlebars. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 27, 2023 9:25:42 GMT
Hmm, not sure that's the best analogy, unless you advocate doing what the boss wants!
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Post by jonksy on Apr 27, 2023 9:42:55 GMT
You seem to imply that democracy is a one off event. Of course you are very wrong, it is an ongoing process. You know full well that between the Maastricht Treaty getting signed in 1992 and our vote to leave in 2016, there was a massive gap, a void in which there was no democratic vote on membership. I don't see you complaining about the lack of democracy that existed for most of the time we were members. Of course there should be more votes on membership, let's hold another referendum in 2036. It's only 13 years away, and another in 2056. And then again in 2076. Every 20 years. I don't see us going back unless the EU undergoes massive reform. I can't see the EUSSR being around in the near future. They have instigated their own demise. They won't be missed. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 27, 2023 10:11:46 GMT
You keep repeating that, but that doesn't make it fact, and there is very little to back up your opinion.
I think most people in their right mind would take one look at the Brexit catastrophe and go "nah, not going there".
Rather interestingly there was a debate in Parliament last night on a petition to have a public enquiry into the effects of Brexit. Although it passed, the government is too scared for the public to know just how bad it has been. Let them keep papering over the cracks...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2023 10:16:17 GMT
I wish I was in a position to have stopped Brexit. Unfortunately, despite my many skills, I was unable to do so. I'll still continue to oppose it though. Well, you can continue to undermine our country and help the EU, but it does no one here any favours. Perhaps it's time to find you a more worthy battle? I hear potholes are becoming a problem. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 27, 2023 10:18:23 GMT
Hmm, not sure that's the best analogy, unless you advocate doing what the boss wants! ?? The point is as regards consent and how it is incumbent on all to work to what has been decided, that is the nature of consent. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2023 10:18:24 GMT
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Post by Dogburger on Apr 27, 2023 10:48:12 GMT
You keep repeating that, but that doesn't make it fact, and there is very little to back up your opinion. I think most people in their right mind would take one look at the Brexit catastrophe and go "nah, not going there". Rather interestingly there was a debate in Parliament last night on a petition to have a public enquiry into the effects of Brexit. Although it passed, the government is too scared for the public to know just how bad it has been. Let them keep papering over the cracks... What there should be a public enquiry about is all the individuals , political parties ,agencies and 'think tanks' that have undermined the process of leaving the EU . That it would implicate too many supposed leavers in government would make it highly unlikely . |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 27, 2023 10:51:15 GMT
You keep repeating that, but that doesn't make it fact, and there is very little to back up your opinion. I think most people in their right mind would take one look at the Brexit catastrophe and go "nah, not going there". Rather interestingly there was a debate in Parliament last night on a petition to have a public enquiry into the effects of Brexit. Although it passed, the government is too scared for the public to know just how bad it has been. Let them keep papering over the cracks... What there should be a public enquiry about is all the individuals , political parties ,agencies and 'think tanks' that have undermined the process of leaving the EU . That it would implicate too many supposed leavers in government would make it highly unlikely . Or perhaps, as pointed out by the op, there actually was no plan? |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 27, 2023 10:52:31 GMT
You keep repeating that, but that doesn't make it fact, and there is very little to back up your opinion. I think most people in their right mind would take one look at the Brexit catastrophe and go "nah, not going there". Rather interestingly there was a debate in Parliament last night on a petition to have a public enquiry into the effects of Brexit. Although it passed, the government is too scared for the public to know just how bad it has been. Let them keep papering over the cracks... If you need a Public Enquiry before people notice people know how bad it has been, then it kinda suggests that it hasn't been that bad - otherwise people might have noticed for themselves. |
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Post by Dogburger on Apr 27, 2023 11:54:47 GMT
What there should be a public enquiry about is all the individuals , political parties ,agencies and 'think tanks' that have undermined the process of leaving the EU . That it would implicate too many supposed leavers in government would make it highly unlikely . Or perhaps, as pointed out by the op, there actually was no plan? Which is again government incompetence . They held a referendum expecting to win it without a plan B if they didnt . Giving the illusion of respecting the vote they proceeded with leaving under article50 of the Lisbon treaty going into long drawn out negociations with the EU . The plan was to be led by the nose by the EU , they never wanted anything else . |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 27, 2023 13:29:53 GMT
Or perhaps, as pointed out by the op, there actually was no plan? Which is again government incompetence . They held a referendum expecting to win it without a plan B if they didnt . Giving the illusion of respecting the vote they proceeded with leaving under article50 of the Lisbon treaty going into long drawn out negociations with the EU . The plan was to be led by the nose by the EU , they never wanted anything else . I'd totally agree, other than I would change your last word "wanted" to "planned". And that is evidenced by the op. |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 27, 2023 16:26:26 GMT
What there should be a public enquiry about is all the individuals , political parties ,agencies and 'think tanks' that have undermined the process of leaving the EU . That it would implicate too many supposed leavers in government would make it highly unlikely . Or perhaps, as pointed out by the op, there actually was no plan? There was always a plan, use the likes of yourself, to create chaos and say we told you so, for the utter feck up made by politicians mainly on purpose by the way. So now they have a very small rump of voters while as I said we are just waiting to say, they don't represent anyone but themselves, which in actual fact is the truth. Nobody can say we didn't give them a last chance at a crack of the whip. Oh I just realised I made it into another pun, well not really I do it all the time. |
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Post by Bentley on Apr 27, 2023 17:47:42 GMT
The plan was to leave the EU . Negotiate as best a deal that we could with the EU. Then look beyond the EU ( but not exclude the EU)for our mid to long term future..and that is what is happening .
We left the EU
We have the best relationship that the EU will allow.
We are looking beyond the EU ( but not excluding the EU) for our mid to long term future.
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