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Post by Pacifico on Apr 26, 2023 13:55:25 GMT
Your side lost sunshine. You make yourself look like a fosssil. When exactly are you going to get over the fact that not enough morons supported remain? I wasn’t aware in a democracy when one side loses they have to give up trying to make their view more popular than the side they lost too? I don’t think calling people who voted remain and are sticking to their guns morons is fair. Andrew is allowed his opinion just as much as you are and you should both be free of childish namecalling, ya know? Democracy only works when you have the Consent of the Losers |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 26, 2023 14:29:13 GMT
Democracy shouldn't require the "consent" of losers.
Only for them to shut up, bide their time and suck their bruised pride in.
Donald Trump learned from the remoaners playbook.
Immediately after losing, he went to the courts.
Then, he went to the mob, to try and have them protest and overturn a democratic vote.
The man is an absolute bastard, but he wasn't the first to do what he did.
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Post by sheepy on Apr 26, 2023 16:40:11 GMT
I wasn’t aware in a democracy when one side loses they have to give up trying to make their view more popular than the side they lost too? I don’t think calling people who voted remain and are sticking to their guns morons is fair. Andrew is allowed his opinion just as much as you are and you should both be free of childish namecalling, ya know? I agree, however in a democracy when a decision is made it is incumbent on both winners and losers to follow whatever has been decided and not try and block and overturn the decision made. This is where the problem lies. The perception is that those who did not like the decision are actively working not just to change it but to ensure that it will not work in any meaningful way. Which is probably why so called representative democracy is a con, as in it doesn't exist only in the mind.Once it came up against actual democracy it had no where to go. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 26, 2023 20:28:17 GMT
Representative democracy sucks.
Direct democracy is way better.
And it's time we had more direct votes.
We had a vote on AV vs FPTP.
Lets have a vote on PR vs FPTP.
Lets have a vote on replacing the Lords with elected politicians who we can sack.
Lets have a vote on fuel taxes.
Lets have a vote on current Net Zero policy and the proposed production of internal combustion engines ban by the 2030s.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 20:45:49 GMT
Representative democracy sucks. Direct democracy is way better. And it's time we had more direct votes. We had a vote on AV vs FPTP. Lets have a vote on PR vs FPTP. Lets have a vote on replacing the Lords with elected politicians who we can sack. Lets have a vote on fuel taxes. Lets have a vote on current Net Zero policy and the proposed production of internal combustion engines ban by the 2030s. After the government lost out in 2016, I can't see us getting any more direct votes any time soon. It would be nice, though! |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 26, 2023 21:27:44 GMT
I wasn’t aware in a democracy when one side loses they have to give up trying to make their view more popular than the side they lost too? I don’t think calling people who voted remain and are sticking to their guns morons is fair. Andrew is allowed his opinion just as much as you are and you should both be free of childish namecalling, ya know? Democracy only works when you have the Consent of the Losers What do you mean by "consent"? I accept that leave got more votes on the day. I accept that we have left. I don't need to "consent" to anything else and I certainly don't have to shut up. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 26, 2023 21:39:12 GMT
Democracy only works when you have the Consent of the Losers What do you mean by "consent"? I accept that leave got more votes on the day. I accept that we have left. I don't need to "consent" to anything else and I certainly don't have to shut up. However what you should not do is dig your heels in and refuse to be taken down the road that was decided. If one keeps on putting the brake on and pointing to the way not chosen and say that is the road we should be on then that is not consent. Working to change a programme is not a problem, refusing to implement a chosen programme is and consent is a very important concept in democracy. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 26, 2023 22:31:40 GMT
I wish I was in a position to have stopped Brexit. Unfortunately, despite my many skills, I was unable to do so. I'll still continue to oppose it though.
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Post by sheepy on Apr 27, 2023 6:30:20 GMT
I wish I was in a position to have stopped Brexit. Unfortunately, despite my many skills, I was unable to do so. I'll still continue to oppose it though. Democracy doesn't get a chance to actually speak very often it is completely out of the hands of the electorate, once it was given the opportunity what you should have done is listened for once, but instead like a good dog you still believed you could beat actual democracy by trying to buck it. Still do. The establishment didn't hold all the cars for once and they are losing ground in one way or another daily because of the attitude they send you out with. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2023 6:40:38 GMT
I wasn’t aware in a democracy when one side loses they have to give up trying to make their view more popular than the side they lost too? I don’t think calling people who voted remain and are sticking to their guns morons is fair. Andrew is allowed his opinion just as much as you are and you should both be free of childish namecalling, ya know? Democracy only works when you have the Consent of the Losers Why do people have to lose? Brexit was supposed to benefit all the people of the country but it has benefitted the wealthiest much greater than the poorest. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 27, 2023 6:47:30 GMT
Democracy only works when you have the Consent of the Losers Why do people have to lose? Brexit was supposed to benefit all the people of the country but it has benefitted the wealthiest much greater than the poorest. It has benefited all the people - the people now have the chance to decide the future direction of the country. Democracy is a great benefit. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 27, 2023 6:53:56 GMT
I wish I was in a position to have stopped Brexit. Unfortunately, despite my many skills, I was unable to do so. I'll still continue to oppose it though. Democracy doesn't get a chance to actually speak very often it is completely out of the hands of the electorate, once it was given the opportunity what you should have done is listened for once, but instead like a good dog you still believed you could beat actual democracy by trying to buck it. Still do. The establishment didn't hold all the cars for once and they are losing ground in one way or another daily because of the attitude they send you out with. You seem to imply that democracy is a one off event. Of course you are very wrong, it is an ongoing process. |
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Post by sheepy on Apr 27, 2023 6:59:25 GMT
Democracy doesn't get a chance to actually speak very often it is completely out of the hands of the electorate, once it was given the opportunity what you should have done is listened for once, but instead like a good dog you still believed you could beat actual democracy by trying to buck it. Still do. The establishment didn't hold all the cars for once and they are losing ground in one way or another daily because of the attitude they send you out with. You seem to imply that democracy is a one off event. Of course you are very wrong, it is an ongoing process. Not in this case, as you were told it was an event that the electorate had their say and whichever way it went was an end of it, it was only when the establishment lost that they introduced that it was an ongoing thing, which would eventually result in them overturning it, this was Blair acting as spokesman again. Who has always been more interested in himself than anything the electorate considered was good for them. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Apr 27, 2023 7:09:36 GMT
So you'll no longer be voting then? Good to know.
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Post by sheepy on Apr 27, 2023 7:13:24 GMT
So you'll no longer be voting then? Good to know. Not for an Establishment that cannot lie straight in bed, no I will be like the large majority of voters abstaining, so we can say who are they representing? certainly not anyone I know. |
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