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Post by sandypine on Apr 5, 2023 18:56:57 GMT
Many years ago (I don’t remember where) I read a report of police frustrations when they were picking care home girls up at night and returning them to the homes with warnings that the people they were consorting with intended them harm. The kids laughed at them saying we’ll be out again as soon as you’re gone and so they were home staff unable to contain them because of their rights. No I’m not blaming the kids or the staff certainly not he police who can’t do right for doing wrong. Anyway the midlands trial does show nothing other than this transcends racial stereotypes,I don’t believe hanging is the answer if for no other reason than anyone remember Dr Marietta Higgs and Cleveland where totally innocent people suffered. Whether the kids were out again or not it was not the children breaking the law. The police are not social workers they are there to uphold the law. |
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Post by wapentake on Apr 5, 2023 19:00:00 GMT
Many years ago (I don’t remember where) I read a report of police frustrations when they were picking care home girls up at night and returning them to the homes with warnings that the people they were consorting with intended them harm. The kids laughed at them saying we’ll be out again as soon as you’re gone and so they were home staff unable to contain them because of their rights. No I’m not blaming the kids or the staff certainly not he police who can’t do right for doing wrong. Anyway the midlands trial does show nothing other than this transcends racial stereotypes,I don’t believe hanging is the answer if for no other reason than anyone remember Dr Marietta Higgs and Cleveland where totally innocent people suffered. Whether the kids were out again or not it was not the children breaking the law. Where did I say it was? Which because of cuts they almost certainly are |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 5, 2023 19:13:19 GMT
Whether the kids were out again or not it was not the children breaking the law. Where did I say it was? Which because of cuts they almost certainly are The point I was trying to make was that the police knew groomers were breaking the law but tried to deal with the children instead of the law breakers. The police are not social workers, they should apply the law in any given situation. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2023 21:23:22 GMT
This can't be true, surely it is only Muslims that commit these crimes. Not as widely reported as the Asian gangs though, is it? It doesn't say in the report what their religion is, but I'd guess they all are a bunch of paedophiles. |
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Post by Steve on Apr 5, 2023 22:03:49 GMT
She did indeed: ''What we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls sometimes in care, sometimes who are in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who have worked in child abuse rings or networks,'Don't take my word for it That is not saying only Muslims that is just saying what we have seen, which is true, she did not even say Muslim, certainly in that part. Just read it again slowly, eventually the actual literal meaning of what she said will sink in. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 6, 2023 6:45:27 GMT
"Ethnicity of grooming gangs cannot be ignored."
Well that would depend on who is in Government at the time... 
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Post by steppenwolf on Apr 6, 2023 6:53:16 GMT
@ steppenwolf:
Specifically on ethnicity, the report states:
Of the offenders for whom ethnicity was recorded, White formed the largest group of offender ethnicity in both gangs and groups. The Children’s Commissioner for England’s partial data collection means that it is hard to assess the validity or bias of the data. The authors themselves noted that findings related to ethnicity are largely a result of how data are collected by organisations, and which cases are more visible to professionals (ibid.). There is evidence that some agencies focus on the specific model and patterns of abuse seen in high-profile cases involving Asian offenders, leading to greater attention being paid to these types of offenders and cases being more readily identified and recorded. For example, site visits and evidence hearings led the Children’s Commissioner for England to conclude that data were more proactively collected on men and boys of Pakistani and Kurdish origin and that this selection bias likely skews the available data, meaning no conclusive inference on ethnicity can be made. They also observed cases of offenders of other backgrounds (such as White-British or Afghan) being initially classed as ‘Asian’ (ibid.). This resonates with the idea discussed earlier that the conceptualisation of this crime type as a racial issue may result in biased data collection, which thus skews law enforcement data to exaggerate a certain model of offending (Cockbain and Tufail, 2020).
In other words, if news reports and Sunday paper exposés highlighting one aspect are repeated and regurgitated, that aspect becomes the overriding factor in further investigation, data collection and public perception.
Seems to me that ideally all safeguarding and child protection agencies and law enforcement personnel should be left in no doubt that all allegations from whatever source and about whatever community need to be acted upon and reported, recorded and audited so that nothing can be ignored, hidden or covered up for any reason...
What a load of meaningless bollocks (the bit in bold). The facts are obvious and have been covered in various reports (Jay, Casey) both of which found that the grooming gangs were concentrated in various towns which have large muslim populations (or as they say "pakistani") - like Rotherham, Rochdale, Telford etc. For example the Jay report on Rotherham stated that: - Over 1400 predominantly white girls were abused (raped and handed round) - and non-muslim - Over 300 men were involved in the abuse and they were "overwhelmingly of Pakistani heritage" - and muslim. And this occurred in Rotherham which has a muslim population of less than 10,000 and a total population of less than 250,000. So the muslims were massively over-represented in child sexual exploitation (CSE). In fact they were/are almost entirely responsible for CSE in Rotherham. And the same is happening all over the country in towns that have muslim populations. The report also says that the police took no action - probably for reasons of political correctness - and in many cases didn't even record reported crimes. So the police data doesn't reflect the massive scale of muslim CSE - which is why an independent report was needed to establish the truth. It's a pity that people like you (and some parts of government) are still trying to deny the facts and hide behind figures that are known to be wrong. Wake up. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 6, 2023 7:12:30 GMT
In 2013, Child Exploitation and Online Protection Command published a study looking at “contact sexual offending against children by non-related adults”. They found that there are two types of group-based abuse. Type 1 is group abuse which involves targeting a teenage victim, or victims, based on their vulnerability, rather than as a result of a specific preferential sexual interest in children. Type 1 offenders are unlikely to be paedophiles. They molest young girls because they are easy prey.
Type 2 group abusers are defined as having “a longstanding sexual interest in children”. They operate in a way that’s often characterised as a paedophile “ring”. In other words, these offenders are not simply targeting children because they are vulnerable, but because they are children.
The CEOP study reported 57 cases of Type 1 group abuse in 2012, and police provided ethnicity data on 52 of those. Half of those Type 1 cases involved all-Asian groups. 21 per cent were all-white groups, and 17 per cent were groups containing multiple ethnicities. Some 75 per cent of recorded Type 1 group abusers, who target victims based on their vulnerability, were Asian. You can set that against figures from the Office for National Statistics which estimates that 7.5 per cent of the UK’s population are Asian. Just 17 per cent of Type 1 offenders were white, compared with 86 per cent of the UK population.
There were six recorded cases of Type 2 group abuse: 100 per cent of recorded Type 2 group offenders, who abuse children because of long-standing paedophilic interest, are white. In other words, the figures are hopelessly skewed.
Although the study found 100 per cent of paedophiles are white males, the majority of men in grooming gangs, who abuse young girls because they are easy prey, not because they are children, are Asian
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Post by Steve on Apr 6, 2023 8:33:28 GMT
"Ethnicity of grooming gangs cannot be ignored."
Well that would depend on who is in Government at the time... But it wasn't true was it. As you have been told before but clearly the truth doesn't support your prejudices so you'll choose them over truth |
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Post by Steve on Apr 6, 2023 9:06:27 GMT
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Post by sandypine on Apr 6, 2023 13:19:15 GMT
It does say as far as possible for older children (?) then what the child wishes should be the main consideration. The officer has discretion to ignore that and the guidance seems aimed primarily on home and parental locations and not on other influences outside the home. The 'informed choice' sounds like a comment from a senior officer if a junior officer is seeking clarification but that is a guess. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 6, 2023 13:21:47 GMT
That is not saying only Muslims that is just saying what we have seen, which is true, she did not even say Muslim, certainly in that part. Just read it again slowly, eventually the actual literal meaning of what she said will sink in. The literal meaning is what is happening is in your head as many of us have found out to our cost. The actual meaning is what she said and no way does it imply only Muslims, as Muslims are not even mentioned. Your inference is all wrong. |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 6, 2023 17:09:17 GMT
It does say as far as possible for older children (?) then what the child wishes should be the main consideration. The officer has discretion to ignore that and the guidance seems aimed primarily on home and parental locations and not on other influences outside the home. The 'informed choice' sounds like a comment from a senior officer if a junior officer is seeking clarification but that is a guess. The claim wasn't that the phrase was in the Circular but in the supporting guidelines...which as far as I am aware nobody has published a copy yet. "Home Office Circular 17/2008 on child abuse had supporting guidelines" |
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Post by Steve on Apr 6, 2023 23:15:38 GMT
Just read it again slowly, eventually the actual literal meaning of what she said will sink in. The literal meaning is what is happening is in your head as many of us have found out to our cost. The actual meaning is what she said and no way does it imply only Muslims, as Muslims are not even mentioned. Your inference is all wrong. FFS Sandy this sad denial of you and your fellow travellers is deplorable For the benefit of those whose first language wasn't English or are in sad denial: ''What we've seen is a practice . . .' Clearly refers to a single practice as covering all the group child sexual abuse . . .whereby vulnerable white English girls sometimes in care, sometimes who are in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who have worked in child abuse rings or networks,' Clearly says it is only ethnic Pakistani men who were to blame. |
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Post by Steve on Apr 6, 2023 23:17:13 GMT
It does say as far as possible for older children (?) then what the child wishes should be the main consideration. The officer has discretion to ignore that and the guidance seems aimed primarily on home and parental locations and not on other influences outside the home. The 'informed choice' sounds like a comment from a senior officer if a junior officer is seeking clarification but that is a guess. The claim wasn't that the phrase was in the Circular but in the supporting guidelines...which as far as I am aware nobody has published a copy yet. "Home Office Circular 17/2008 on child abuse had supporting guidelines"Because the supporting guidelines did not come from the Home Office but from police at some level instead IE not a Labour issue And I repeat some of those senior police should be in jail |
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