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Post by Steve on Apr 5, 2023 13:28:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2023 13:47:29 GMT
This can't be true, surely it is only Muslims that commit these crimes. Not as widely reported as the Asian gangs though, is it? |
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Post by steppenwolf on Apr 5, 2023 13:50:24 GMT
What a croc of politically correct crap. The above does not mention type 1 CSE offences of which 84% of offenders come from 4% of the population and are described as British Pakistani or, of Pakistani heritage. Tell me Pat, why in your opinion do you suppose a report from the politically correct Home Office neglects to mention type 1 CSE offences? Child sex abuse cases (Type 1, Type 2 exploiters, or whatever) are abhorrent, and the perpetrators — all of them — need removing from society. I've got kids and I want the harshest punishment given to child abusers. But I don't see that focusing on one ethnicity for one type of abuse helps, especially if it means ignoring the greater overall incidence and prevalence of group-based CSE and other child sexual abuse in order to support particular prejudices. If you read the report I linked to, you'll see that both ethnicity and types of group-based child sexual exploitation are covered, and also that the views you express are not backed up... www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version#offender-characteristics-1But your report also says that " offender data were provided in full for only 3% of these perpetrators and none at all were returned for 68% of perpetrators". As I said earlier the data that the police record is very patchy and doesn't record ethnicity of the offender - although SUnack is saying that this is gouing to be done in the future. Also, as the various reports on these grooming scandals have said, the police have been reluctant to prosecute the Pakistani gangs responsible for fear of stoking "ethnic tensions". So you won't find much evidence for the extent of muslim involvement in rape gangs in government figures. There is however a LOT of evidence of it in reports like the Jay report. As for focusing on the ethnicity of the perpetrator not helping, I agree that the crime should be punished in the same way regardless of their ethnicity. But the whole point is that this is NOT happening. Abuse of the vulnerable is most certainly being tackled by the police if the offender is white. The problem is that Asian muslim offenders are NOT being prosecuted. I also think that to provide effective policing we need to be aware of who the criminals are. If one community is responsible for large amounts of a particular crime it's the duty of the police to be aware of this and take appropriate action. After all about 90% of crime is perpetrated bey about 10% of the community (or maybe less). Most people don't break the law. It's the job of the police to know who the most likely criminals are and focus on them |
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Post by jonksy on Apr 5, 2023 14:18:37 GMT
But your report also says that " offender data were provided in full for only 3% of these perpetrators and none at all were returned for 68% of perpetrators". As I said earlier the data that the police record is very patchy and doesn't record ethnicity of the offender - although SUnack is saying that this is gouing to be done in the future. Also, as the various reports on these grooming scandals have said, the police have been reluctant to prosecute the Pakistani gangs responsible for fear of stoking "ethnic tensions". So you won't find much evidence for the extent of muslim involvement in rape gangs in government figures. There is however a LOT of evidence of it in reports like the Jay report. As for focusing on the ethnicity of the perpetrator not helping, I agree that the crime should be punished in the same way regardless of their ethnicity. But the whole point is that this is NOT happening. Abuse of the vulnerable is most certainly being tackled by the police if the offender is white. The problem is that Asian muslim offenders are NOT being prosecuted. I also think that to provide effective policing we need to be aware of who the criminals are. If one community is responsible for large amounts of a particular crime it's the duty of the police to be aware of this and take appropriate action. After all about 90% of crime is perpetrated bey about 10% of the community (or maybe less). Most people don't break the law. It's the job of the police to know who the most likely criminals are and focus on them Tommorow will be a bugger mate.....
Look up tonight! Full Pink Moon will peak this evening, but be warned - it could trigger sleep issues, anxiety and even VIOLENCE
The April Full Moon is set to shine brightly at 05:34 BST tomorrow morning
Despite its name, the Moon will not turn pink, remaining its grey colour
The Full Moon is enveloped in mystery with contrasting studies about its effects
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Post by sandypine on Apr 5, 2023 14:38:54 GMT
This can't be true, surely it is only Muslims that commit these crimes. Not as widely reported as the Asian gangs though, is it? Being snide and inaccurate does not help your case. No one has ever said it is only Muslims that commit this type of offence what is repeatedly said is that in this type of offence proportionally a significant involvement is noted within the Muslim community. So much so that it needs highlighting and is exacerbated by cover ups and refusals to prosecute. What makes the crime even more significant, and the left often highlight this type of thing, is that the victims are predominantly outwith their own community. At a guess I would say the group linked to above obtained their victims within their own ethnic grouping. |
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Post by patman post on Apr 5, 2023 14:54:49 GMT
@ steppenwolf:
Specifically on ethnicity, the report states:
Of the offenders for whom ethnicity was recorded, White formed the largest group of offender ethnicity in both gangs and groups. The Children’s Commissioner for England’s partial data collection means that it is hard to assess the validity or bias of the data. The authors themselves noted that findings related to ethnicity are largely a result of how data are collected by organisations, and which cases are more visible to professionals (ibid.). There is evidence that some agencies focus on the specific model and patterns of abuse seen in high-profile cases involving Asian offenders, leading to greater attention being paid to these types of offenders and cases being more readily identified and recorded. For example, site visits and evidence hearings led the Children’s Commissioner for England to conclude that data were more proactively collected on men and boys of Pakistani and Kurdish origin and that this selection bias likely skews the available data, meaning no conclusive inference on ethnicity can be made. They also observed cases of offenders of other backgrounds (such as White-British or Afghan) being initially classed as ‘Asian’ (ibid.). This resonates with the idea discussed earlier that the conceptualisation of this crime type as a racial issue may result in biased data collection, which thus skews law enforcement data to exaggerate a certain model of offending (Cockbain and Tufail, 2020).
In other words, if news reports and Sunday paper exposés highlighting one aspect are repeated and regurgitated, that aspect becomes the overriding factor in further investigation, data collection and public perception.
Seems to me that ideally all safeguarding and child protection agencies and law enforcement personnel should be left in no doubt that all allegations from whatever source and about whatever community need to be acted upon and reported, recorded and audited so that nothing can be ignored, hidden or covered up for any reason...
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Post by sandypine on Apr 5, 2023 15:09:00 GMT
@ steppenwolf:
Specifically on ethnicity, the report states:
Of the offenders for whom ethnicity was recorded, White formed the largest group of offender ethnicity in both gangs and groups. The Children’s Commissioner for England’s partial data collection means that it is hard to assess the validity or bias of the data. The authors themselves noted that findings related to ethnicity are largely a result of how data are collected by organisations, and which cases are more visible to professionals (ibid.). There is evidence that some agencies focus on the specific model and patterns of abuse seen in high-profile cases involving Asian offenders, leading to greater attention being paid to these types of offenders and cases being more readily identified and recorded. For example, site visits and evidence hearings led the Children’s Commissioner for England to conclude that data were more proactively collected on men and boys of Pakistani and Kurdish origin and that this selection bias likely skews the available data, meaning no conclusive inference on ethnicity can be made. They also observed cases of offenders of other backgrounds (such as White-British or Afghan) being initially classed as ‘Asian’ (ibid.). This resonates with the idea discussed earlier that the conceptualisation of this crime type as a racial issue may result in biased data collection, which thus skews law enforcement data to exaggerate a certain model of offending (Cockbain and Tufail, 2020).
In other words, if news reports and Sunday paper exposés highlighting one aspect are repeated and regurgitated, that aspect becomes the overriding factor in further investigation, data collection and public perception.
Seems to me that ideally all safeguarding and child protection agencies and law enforcement personnel should be left in no doubt that all allegations from whatever source and about whatever community need to be acted upon and reported, recorded and audited so that nothing can be ignored, hidden or covered up for any reason...
I recall that there were accusations of a group of Asian men raping a black girl in Lozells and the whole area succumbed to ethnic violence where the only white people visible were in police uniforms trying to protect victims and stem the violence. All that is being asked by white groups is that if there is a problem with Pakistani grooming gangs, and the perception is clearly that there is, then why, how and what to do about it should be investigated as a matter of urgency. Why has it taken ten years or more to get that across as a need and if it is wrong then produce the figures that show it is wrong as an investigation would ascertain. All we have been getting over the years has been dodging and ducking and diving to stop that investigation from taking place because it would be racist to even consider it. There have been a few acts of violence but in general a Lozells type outcome has not materialised. Saying things like most child sex abusers are white is stating the bleeding obvious because proportion is the operative consideration. |
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Post by patman post on Apr 5, 2023 15:31:56 GMT
@ steppenwolf:
Specifically on ethnicity, the report states:
Of the offenders for whom ethnicity was recorded, White formed the largest group of offender ethnicity in both gangs and groups. The Children’s Commissioner for England’s partial data collection means that it is hard to assess the validity or bias of the data. The authors themselves noted that findings related to ethnicity are largely a result of how data are collected by organisations, and which cases are more visible to professionals (ibid.). There is evidence that some agencies focus on the specific model and patterns of abuse seen in high-profile cases involving Asian offenders, leading to greater attention being paid to these types of offenders and cases being more readily identified and recorded. For example, site visits and evidence hearings led the Children’s Commissioner for England to conclude that data were more proactively collected on men and boys of Pakistani and Kurdish origin and that this selection bias likely skews the available data, meaning no conclusive inference on ethnicity can be made. They also observed cases of offenders of other backgrounds (such as White-British or Afghan) being initially classed as ‘Asian’ (ibid.). This resonates with the idea discussed earlier that the conceptualisation of this crime type as a racial issue may result in biased data collection, which thus skews law enforcement data to exaggerate a certain model of offending (Cockbain and Tufail, 2020).
In other words, if news reports and Sunday paper exposés highlighting one aspect are repeated and regurgitated, that aspect becomes the overriding factor in further investigation, data collection and public perception.
Seems to me that ideally all safeguarding and child protection agencies and law enforcement personnel should be left in no doubt that all allegations from whatever source and about whatever community need to be acted upon and reported, recorded and audited so that nothing can be ignored, hidden or covered up for any reason...
I recall that there were accusations of a group of Asian men raping a black girl in Lozells and the whole area succumbed to ethnic violence where the only white people visible were in police uniforms trying to protect victims and stem the violence. All that is being asked by white groups is that if there is a problem with Pakistani grooming gangs, and the perception is clearly that there is, then why, how and what to do about it should be investigated as a matter of urgency. Why has it taken ten years or more to get that across as a need and if it is wrong then produce the figures that show it is wrong as an investigation would ascertain. All we have been getting over the years has been dodging and ducking and diving to stop that investigation from taking place because it would be racist to even consider it. There have been a few acts of violence but in general a Lozells type outcome has not materialised. Saying things like most child sex abusers are white is stating the bleeding obvious because proportion is the operative consideration. Your recollections of rioting in Lozells, highlight the problems (and tragedy) that allegations can bring when they're accepted as gospel:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Birmingham_riots |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2023 16:04:10 GMT
This can't be true, surely it is only Muslims that commit these crimes. Not as widely reported as the Asian gangs though, is it? Being snide and inaccurate does not help your case. No one has ever said it is only Muslims that commit this type of offence what is repeatedly said is that in this type of offence proportionally a significant involvement is noted within the Muslim community. So much so that it needs highlighting and is exacerbated by cover ups and refusals to prosecute. What makes the crime even more significant, and the left often highlight this type of thing, is that the victims are predominantly outwith their own community. At a guess I would say the group linked to above obtained their victims within their own ethnic grouping. And I have never said Asian grooming gangs do not exist but the media and posters on here appear to pay a lot more attention to Asian gangs than white. Have a look at the number of posts with 'negative' comments about Asians and compare it to posts about 'whites'. But you keep 'guessing' you seem to have it sussed. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 5, 2023 16:44:38 GMT
I recall that there were accusations of a group of Asian men raping a black girl in Lozells and the whole area succumbed to ethnic violence where the only white people visible were in police uniforms trying to protect victims and stem the violence. All that is being asked by white groups is that if there is a problem with Pakistani grooming gangs, and the perception is clearly that there is, then why, how and what to do about it should be investigated as a matter of urgency. Why has it taken ten years or more to get that across as a need and if it is wrong then produce the figures that show it is wrong as an investigation would ascertain. All we have been getting over the years has been dodging and ducking and diving to stop that investigation from taking place because it would be racist to even consider it. There have been a few acts of violence but in general a Lozells type outcome has not materialised. Saying things like most child sex abusers are white is stating the bleeding obvious because proportion is the operative consideration. Your recollections of rioting in Lozells, highlight the problems (and tragedy) that allegations can bring when they're accepted as gospel:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Birmingham_riotsI am not clear what you are saying I got wrong. I said there were accusations, I did not say they were true. That seems to have been the spark with mutual animosity being the oxygen. The point I made was there is proven evidence that rape gangs have operated in many towns, did choose outside their ethnic group and so far the non-Muslim community have opted for letting the police do their job and not taken the law into their own hands. The way it should be as long as the police, the social workers and the politicians are on the same page, which so far is suspect. |
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Post by Steve on Apr 5, 2023 16:47:54 GMT
This can't be true, surely it is only Muslims that commit these crimes. Not as widely reported as the Asian gangs though, is it? Being snide and inaccurate does not help your case. No one has ever said it is only Muslims that commit this type of offence . . . Well apart from Suella Braverman you mean. Some of the posts on the old site very much looked like saying same too Anyway for record, this latest case does not show that all post 2013 group child sexual abuse is by white people despite the Daily Misery's reluctance to cover it. |
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Post by sandypine on Apr 5, 2023 17:00:18 GMT
Being snide and inaccurate does not help your case. No one has ever said it is only Muslims that commit this type of offence . . . Well apart from Suella Braverman you mean. Some of the posts on the old site very much looked like saying same too Anyway for record, this latest case does not show that all post 2013 group child sexual abuse is by white people despite the Daily Misery's reluctance to cover it. Did she say it? What things look like and what they are as we know can be different. Which is why it may look like Muslims are the main perpetrators but the reluctance has been all along in actually finding out if that is the case, if it is why is it the case and if it is not lay to rest the perception that it is. That would sort it in one but 10 to 15 years of prevarication have not helped and that makes people even more suspicious of why the delay. |
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Post by Steve on Apr 5, 2023 17:45:38 GMT
Well apart from Suella Braverman you mean. Some of the posts on the old site very much looked like saying same too Anyway for record, this latest case does not show that all post 2013 group child sexual abuse is by white people despite the Daily Misery's reluctance to cover it. What things look like and what they are as we know can be different. Which is why it may look like Muslims are the main perpetrators but the reluctance has been all along in actually finding out if that is the case, if it is why is it the case and if it is not lay to rest the perception that it is. That would sort it in one but 10 to 15 years of prevarication have not helped and that makes people even more suspicious of why the delay. She did indeed: ''What we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls sometimes in care, sometimes who are in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who have worked in child abuse rings or networks,'Don't take my word for it |
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Post by wapentake on Apr 5, 2023 18:35:54 GMT
Many years ago (I don’t remember where) I read a report of police frustrations when they were picking care home girls up at night and returning them to the homes with warnings that the people they were consorting with intended them harm.
The kids laughed at them saying we’ll be out again as soon as you’re gone and so they were home staff unable to contain them because of their rights.
No I’m not blaming the kids or the staff certainly not he police who can’t do right for doing wrong.
Anyway the midlands trial does show nothing other than this transcends racial stereotypes,I don’t believe hanging is the answer if for no other reason than anyone remember Dr Marietta Higgs and Cleveland where totally innocent people suffered.
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Post by sandypine on Apr 5, 2023 18:54:12 GMT
Did she say it? What things look like and what they are as we know can be different. Which is why it may look like Muslims are the main perpetrators but the reluctance has been all along in actually finding out if that is the case, if it is why is it the case and if it is not lay to rest the perception that it is. That would sort it in one but 10 to 15 years of prevarication have not helped and that makes people even more suspicious of why the delay. She did indeed: ''What we've seen is a practice whereby vulnerable white English girls sometimes in care, sometimes who are in challenging circumstances, being pursued and raped and drugged and harmed by gangs of British Pakistani men who have worked in child abuse rings or networks,'Don't take my word for it That is not saying only Muslims that is just saying what we have seen, which is true, she did not even say Muslim, certainly in that part. |
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