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Post by johnofgwent on Apr 3, 2023 14:54:02 GMT
Rishi Sunak to launch crackdown amid concerns perpetrators are evading justice because people fear being accused of racism or bigotryIt comes after the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse warned in October that “victims and survivors suggested that professionals feared allegations of racism and that this was prioritised over their safety”. The inquiry found that despite the scandals of grooming gangs in Rotherham and Rochdale, the problem had not been tackled. However, on Sunday, Labour accused the Government of singling out British Pakistanis and engaging in “dog whistle politics”. Suella Braverman, the Home Secretary, accused Labour councillors of failing to act against child sexual abuse by gangs of British Pakistani men because of fears of being called racist. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/02/grooming-gangs-ethnicity-political-correctness-rishi-sunak/#:~:text=Political%20correctness%20must%20no%20longer,Sunak%20will%20say%20on%20Monday. Sunak will today announce a special taskforce to deal specifically with grooming gangs, and tougher sentences for those guilty of grooming gang offences. All I can say is, about bloody time. The government seem to be talking tough and the Home Secretary has publicly named British Pakistanis as the main problem. But I'm not cheering yet, lets see what happens. Also, Braverman said it will from now on be mandatory to report and record the ethnicity of grooming gangs. That should upset the politically correct massaged stats. It's a pity our government is carry out a 'ethic' slant to sexual assaults but it is only to be expected. linkAll perpetrators of sexual assault should be locked up and the key thrown away but our government is using people's despair for electioneering purposes. but they are not. They are merely correcting LABOUR’s ‘ethnic slant’, driven by the fact their front benchers needed the ethnic vote, to sweep crimes commutted by ethnics under the carpet lest the justice system be valled racist. If you can’t see the problem is Pakistani men thought they could continue to behave in the UK as tbey behaved in their third world shithole hell they immigrated from, then you are part of tbe problem.
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Post by Steve on Apr 3, 2023 14:59:14 GMT
yes your 'If the rape gangs had been white, there would have been no cover up.' was Here have the awkward facts about a well known white group CSE: Abuse in the UK Catholic churchThere's no evidence that any ethnic group is predisposed to child abuse but every evidence that once a gang feels immune from the police the abuse increases dramatically. And way too many ethnic Pakistani gangs were very much allowed to go unmonitored by way too many in authority because such authority was lazy, thick and self serving. As a result for over a decade group sexual abuse was about 50% ethnic Pakistani led, a significant disproportion Throw the offenders into jail and throw away the key and then jail those police and others in authority that couldn't be arsed to do their job. And for goodness sake do not spread the myth that it's not a white problem too, to go down that route would be to perpetuate the unmonitored->uncontrolled abuse line just with different actors.
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Post by Vinny on Apr 3, 2023 15:11:02 GMT
Nobody is covering up for Catholic paedos these days.
Change the law, hang em.
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Post by patman post on Apr 3, 2023 15:12:29 GMT
Rather than relying on personal prejudice and what has become entrenched in public discourse by the Express, Mail, Telegraph, etc, I suggest the following govt paper is worth studying: Characteristics of group-based child sexual exploitation in the community: literature review (accessible version) Updated 23 December 2021
5.1.3. Ethnicity
Based on the literature it is not possible to draw any conclusions as to whether some ethnicities have a greater involvement in group-based offending compared with others. Looking at CSA offending more generally, The CSA Centre compared the ethnicity of convicted defendants with the proportions of different ethnic groups in the population and found that whilst 14% of the population of England and Wales were from a Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) background according to the 2011 Census, only 8.4% of convicted defendants were from BAME backgrounds, where ethnicity was known (Parke and Karsna, 2019). Whilst they did not look specifically at certain ethnic minority groups, this would appear to suggest that those from an ethnic minority background more generally are not over-represented in CSA offending. However, the media has given much attention to the model of offending involving an Asian perpetrator and White victim (The Children’s Society, 2018; Cockbain and Tufail, 2020) and it is important to examine the evidence underlying such perceptions.
It seems to me that if the ethnicity/nationality of offenders and victims becomes politicised and weaponised, the true scale and area of these offences is in danger of being overlooked and, what appears to be a wider problem than particular grooming gangs...
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 3, 2023 15:43:54 GMT
Rather than relying on personal prejudice and what has become entrenched in public discourse by the Express, Mail, Telegraph, etc, I suggest the following govt paper is worth studying: Characteristics of group-based child sexual exploitation in the community: literature review (accessible version) Updated 23 December 2021
5.1.3. Ethnicity
Based on the literature it is not possible to draw any conclusions as to whether some ethnicities have a greater involvement in group-based offending compared with others. Looking at CSA offending more generally, The CSA Centre compared the ethnicity of convicted defendants with the proportions of different ethnic groups in the population and found that whilst 14% of the population of England and Wales were from a Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) background according to the 2011 Census, only 8.4% of convicted defendants were from BAME backgrounds, where ethnicity was known (Parke and Karsna, 2019). Whilst they did not look specifically at certain ethnic minority groups, this would appear to suggest that those from an ethnic minority background more generally are not over-represented in CSA offending. However, the media has given much attention to the model of offending involving an Asian perpetrator and White victim (The Children’s Society, 2018; Cockbain and Tufail, 2020) and it is important to examine the evidence underlying such perceptions.
It seems to me that if the ethnicity/nationality of offenders and victims becomes politicised and weaponised, the true scale and area of these offences is in danger of being overlooked and, what appears to be a wider problem than particular grooming gangs...
What a croc of politically correct crap. The above does not mention type 1 CSE offences of which 84% of offenders come from 4% of the population and are described as British Pakistani or, of Pakistani heritage. Tell me Pat, why in your opinion do you suppose a report from the politically correct Home Office neglects to mention type 1 CSE offences?
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Post by sandypine on Apr 3, 2023 18:54:04 GMT
yes your 'If the rape gangs had been white, there would have been no cover up.' was Here have the awkward facts about a well known white group CSE: Abuse in the UK Catholic churchThere's no evidence that any ethnic group is predisposed to child abuse but every evidence that once a gang feels immune from the police the abuse increases dramatically. And way too many ethnic Pakistani gangs were very much allowed to go unmonitored by way too many in authority because such authority was lazy, thick and self serving. As a result for over a decade group sexual abuse was about 50% ethnic Pakistani led, a significant disproportion Throw the offenders into jail and throw away the key and then jail those police and others in authority that couldn't be arsed to do their job. And for goodness sake do not spread the myth that it's not a white problem too, to go down that route would be to perpetuate the unmonitored->uncontrolled abuse line just with different actors. There are many problems with comparing any cover up to that which occurred as regards Catholic church abuse. The Catholic Church is an independent organisation that tasks itself with the moral outlook of those who wish to follow them. The police, the social services, the politicians were all those specifically tasked by the public to protect the public and to seek out lawbreakers as regards all citizens. The Catholic Church was protecting its own. All the others were protecting those they were specifically tasked with finding. No one is saying it is not a white problem however the problems are cover up, racial/ethnic/religious selection of victims (which alone normally merits more detailed investigation and stiffer sentences) and political inactivity and aversion to actually finding out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2023 21:12:13 GMT
If the rape gangs had been white, there would have been no cover up. Labour should throw Gordon Brown out of the party for bringing them into disrepute, they should do the same to anyone else involved in trying to cover up the crimes. So you wish to still ignore (ie cover up) the Catholic church abuses, the Church of England school abuses and that contrary to the racist cow braverman's outburst yesterday white people commit the most child sexual abuse in the UK Red Rackham loves you for this Home Office 2020 report
It's been a problem for decades, probably centuries wherever authorities and police don't want to look. Why you blame that on Gordon Brown says more about your rabid anti left views than anything of sense. Classic whataboutery diversion tactics. Subject is grooming gangs. Perhaps split out the thread, Steve, to talk about the Catholics?
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Post by steppenwolf on Apr 4, 2023 7:14:52 GMT
I would not hold your breath, the Tories have already produced a 'no stone unturned' type inquiry that left several massive stones languishing in the shadows and in the full glare of the investigation and completely unturned. We all saw how that one reported. It may take another few years before anything is really changed, if Labour win there will be five more years of shovelling. Oh I'm not crossing my bridges just yet. I remember what Sunak said last year about grooming gangs, but at least the government are at long last openly talking about 'Pakistani' grooming gangs. Yes, that at least is something that has never happened before. Both Sunak and Braverman have openly stated that the grooming of white (non-muslim) girls is "overwhelmingly perpetrated by men of Pakistani heritage". And it's probably significant that they're both Asians - no white politician has ever said this, because they'd just be called racists by the PC Left. But it's a pity that they couldn't have gone a bit further and pointed out that the abusers are basically all muslims. Asians of other religions are not involved. However the BBC had a report on Today that flatly contradicted all this. Mishal Hussain (who is a muslim of course) led a report that said that the Home Office investigation into the grooming gangs found that almost all the abuse of white girls was carried out by white men and that there was NO over-representation of any race or religion in the figures. The BBC even said that it would be better if less attention were paid to the race of the perpetrators and more attention paid to the "dangerous behaviour of the girls" - which I find absolutely astonishing. This is classic "victim blaming" which is exactly what the police did and is why so few cases were prosecuted. The basic problem here is that the data is so patchy. For a start police basically ignored most of the thousands of offences committed by muslims - and when they did record the offences they usually didn't include the ethnicity of the perpetrators. The only places where you get a true picture of what was going on is the various reports (like the Jay report) where the massive over-representation of muslims is obvious. So broadcasters like the BBC can get away with blatantly misleading the public. But it's good that we now have Talk TV/Radio and GBN who both presented what was/is going on accurately. I just hope SUnak doesn't bottle it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 8:36:52 GMT
Oh I'm not crossing my bridges just yet. I remember what Sunak said last year about grooming gangs, but at least the government are at long last openly talking about 'Pakistani' grooming gangs. Yes, that at least is something that has never happened before. Both Sunak and Braverman have openly stated that the grooming of white (non-muslim) girls is "overwhelmingly perpetrated by men of Pakistani heritage". And it's probably significant that they're both Asians - no white politician has ever said this, because they'd just be called racists by the PC Left. But it's a pity that they couldn't have gone a bit further and pointed out that the abusers are basically all muslims. Asians of other religions are not involved. However the BBC had a report on Today that flatly contradicted all this. Mishal Hussain (who is a muslim of course) led a report that said that the Home Office investigation into the grooming gangs found that almost all the abuse of white girls was carried out by white men and that there was NO over-representation of any race or religion in the figures. The BBC even said that it would be better if less attention were paid to the race of the perpetrators and more attention paid to the "dangerous behaviour of the girls" - which I find absolutely astonishing. This is classic "victim blaming" which is exactly what the police did and is why so few cases were prosecuted. The basic problem here is that the data is so patchy. For a start police basically ignored most of the thousands of offences committed by muslims - and when they did record the offences they usually didn't include the ethnicity of the perpetrators. The only places where you get a true picture of what was going on is the various reports (like the Jay report) where the massive over-representation of muslims is obvious. So broadcasters like the BBC can get away with blatantly misleading the public. But it's good that we now have Talk TV/Radio and GBN who both presented what was/is going on accurately. I just hope SUnak doesn't bottle it. So the Home office is telling lies?
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Post by sandypine on Apr 4, 2023 8:52:09 GMT
Yes, that at least is something that has never happened before. Both Sunak and Braverman have openly stated that the grooming of white (non-muslim) girls is "overwhelmingly perpetrated by men of Pakistani heritage". And it's probably significant that they're both Asians - no white politician has ever said this, because they'd just be called racists by the PC Left. But it's a pity that they couldn't have gone a bit further and pointed out that the abusers are basically all muslims. Asians of other religions are not involved. However the BBC had a report on Today that flatly contradicted all this. Mishal Hussain (who is a muslim of course) led a report that said that the Home Office investigation into the grooming gangs found that almost all the abuse of white girls was carried out by white men and that there was NO over-representation of any race or religion in the figures. The BBC even said that it would be better if less attention were paid to the race of the perpetrators and more attention paid to the "dangerous behaviour of the girls" - which I find absolutely astonishing. This is classic "victim blaming" which is exactly what the police did and is why so few cases were prosecuted. The basic problem here is that the data is so patchy. For a start police basically ignored most of the thousands of offences committed by muslims - and when they did record the offences they usually didn't include the ethnicity of the perpetrators. The only places where you get a true picture of what was going on is the various reports (like the Jay report) where the massive over-representation of muslims is obvious. So broadcasters like the BBC can get away with blatantly misleading the public. But it's good that we now have Talk TV/Radio and GBN who both presented what was/is going on accurately. I just hope SUnak doesn't bottle it. So the Home office is telling lies? Once again it is hiding a problem by integrating it with a larger general problem. Sexual abuse of children is a widespread problem amongst all groups. How that problem manifests itself and how it is tackled is very cogent to the point. There is, has been, and may well in future continue to be a specific issue with one ethno-religious group preying on the vulnerable girls of other ethnic groups whereby it is noted that in recent years this has been commonplace in certain cities and towns whereby just on the look test the ethnicity of the gangs of perpetrators is decidedly different from the victims. This is something that the left would normally be very alert to and quite prepared to continue to press for inquiries and investigations to determine the level of 'institutional racism' and cultural intolerance so that their own view of zero tolerance to such things can be met. The fact the left are moving heaven and earth to stop any such investigations taking place, being talked about or even considered tells the tale of why we have come to such a sorry pass in the first place.
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Post by Red Rackham on Apr 4, 2023 14:21:08 GMT
Yes, that at least is something that has never happened before. Both Sunak and Braverman have openly stated that the grooming of white (non-muslim) girls is "overwhelmingly perpetrated by men of Pakistani heritage". And it's probably significant that they're both Asians - no white politician has ever said this, because they'd just be called racists by the PC Left. But it's a pity that they couldn't have gone a bit further and pointed out that the abusers are basically all muslims. Asians of other religions are not involved. However the BBC had a report on Today that flatly contradicted all this. Mishal Hussain (who is a muslim of course) led a report that said that the Home Office investigation into the grooming gangs found that almost all the abuse of white girls was carried out by white men and that there was NO over-representation of any race or religion in the figures. The BBC even said that it would be better if less attention were paid to the race of the perpetrators and more attention paid to the "dangerous behaviour of the girls" - which I find absolutely astonishing. This is classic "victim blaming" which is exactly what the police did and is why so few cases were prosecuted. The basic problem here is that the data is so patchy. For a start police basically ignored most of the thousands of offences committed by muslims - and when they did record the offences they usually didn't include the ethnicity of the perpetrators. The only places where you get a true picture of what was going on is the various reports (like the Jay report) where the massive over-representation of muslims is obvious. So broadcasters like the BBC can get away with blatantly misleading the public. But it's good that we now have Talk TV/Radio and GBN who both presented what was/is going on accurately. I just hope SUnak doesn't bottle it. So the Home office is telling lies? You will insist on proving me correct when I call you a pillock.
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Post by steppenwolf on Apr 5, 2023 6:37:49 GMT
Yes, that at least is something that has never happened before. Both Sunak and Braverman have openly stated that the grooming of white (non-muslim) girls is "overwhelmingly perpetrated by men of Pakistani heritage". And it's probably significant that they're both Asians - no white politician has ever said this, because they'd just be called racists by the PC Left. But it's a pity that they couldn't have gone a bit further and pointed out that the abusers are basically all muslims. Asians of other religions are not involved. However the BBC had a report on Today that flatly contradicted all this. Mishal Hussain (who is a muslim of course) led a report that said that the Home Office investigation into the grooming gangs found that almost all the abuse of white girls was carried out by white men and that there was NO over-representation of any race or religion in the figures. The BBC even said that it would be better if less attention were paid to the race of the perpetrators and more attention paid to the "dangerous behaviour of the girls" - which I find absolutely astonishing. This is classic "victim blaming" which is exactly what the police did and is why so few cases were prosecuted. The basic problem here is that the data is so patchy. For a start police basically ignored most of the thousands of offences committed by muslims - and when they did record the offences they usually didn't include the ethnicity of the perpetrators. The only places where you get a true picture of what was going on is the various reports (like the Jay report) where the massive over-representation of muslims is obvious. So broadcasters like the BBC can get away with blatantly misleading the public. But it's good that we now have Talk TV/Radio and GBN who both presented what was/is going on accurately. I just hope SUnak doesn't bottle it. So the Home office is telling lies? As I said the data that we have is bad because a) the ethnicity of the perpetrators has often not been recorded and b) the police have been reluctant to prosecute offences for reasons of political correctness. So the fact that the perpetrators are of "overwhelmingly Pakistani origin" doesn't necessarily show up in the data. But the special reports (such as the Jay report on Rotherham) have made it very clear that muslims have been overwhelmingly attacking non-muslim white girls. The Home Office are not lying but their report was (probably deliberately) misleading. It's about time that the Left accepted that there is a cultural problem with muslims attitude to women and children.
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Post by patman post on Apr 5, 2023 8:48:11 GMT
Rather than relying on personal prejudice and what has become entrenched in public discourse by the Express, Mail, Telegraph, etc, I suggest the following govt paper is worth studying: Characteristics of group-based child sexual exploitation in the community: literature review (accessible version) Updated 23 December 2021
5.1.3. Ethnicity
Based on the literature it is not possible to draw any conclusions as to whether some ethnicities have a greater involvement in group-based offending compared with others. Looking at CSA offending more generally, The CSA Centre compared the ethnicity of convicted defendants with the proportions of different ethnic groups in the population and found that whilst 14% of the population of England and Wales were from a Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic (BAME) background according to the 2011 Census, only 8.4% of convicted defendants were from BAME backgrounds, where ethnicity was known (Parke and Karsna, 2019). Whilst they did not look specifically at certain ethnic minority groups, this would appear to suggest that those from an ethnic minority background more generally are not over-represented in CSA offending. However, the media has given much attention to the model of offending involving an Asian perpetrator and White victim (The Children’s Society, 2018; Cockbain and Tufail, 2020) and it is important to examine the evidence underlying such perceptions.
It seems to me that if the ethnicity/nationality of offenders and victims becomes politicised and weaponised, the true scale and area of these offences is in danger of being overlooked and, what appears to be a wider problem than particular grooming gangs...
What a croc of politically correct crap. The above does not mention type 1 CSE offences of which 84% of offenders come from 4% of the population and are described as British Pakistani or, of Pakistani heritage. Tell me Pat, why in your opinion do you suppose a report from the politically correct Home Office neglects to mention type 1 CSE offences? Child sex abuse cases (Type 1, Type 2 exploiters, or whatever) are abhorrent, and the perpetrators — all of them — need removing from society. I've got kids and I want the harshest punishment given to child abusers. But I don't see that focusing on one ethnicity for one type of abuse helps, especially if it means ignoring the greater overall incidence and prevalence of group-based CSE and other child sexual abuse in order to support particular prejudices. If you read the report I linked to, you'll see that both ethnicity and types of group-based child sexual exploitation are covered, and also that the views you express are not backed up... www.gov.uk/government/publications/group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-characteristics-of-offending/characteristics-of-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation-in-the-community-literature-review-accessible-version#offender-characteristics-1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2023 11:59:48 GMT
So the Home office is telling lies? You will insist on proving me correct when I call you a pillock. That's obviously evidence then?
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Post by Toreador on Apr 5, 2023 12:24:34 GMT
You will insist on proving me correct when I call you a pillock. That's obviously evidence then? Your close relative Red Rackham wrote over a day ago, are you just catching up?
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