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Post by Vinny on Apr 5, 2023 13:45:05 GMT
Patman, any issues at Calais are down to the French.
They do not employ enough staff, and those they do employ keep striking for better pay / pensions.
Operation Stack has been running since 1988.
It's been this way for decades.
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Post by Handyman on Apr 5, 2023 13:56:35 GMT
The UK’s status of a third country outside the EU is causing immense delays to once such simple procedures as travelling by rail or ferry Nonsense. Operation Stack has been going since 1988. Every time French port workers go on strike (which is a lot of the time) it's been triggered. It's nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with the French who at the moment are throwing a massive tantrum about having to retire at 64 rather than 62. Exactly , the reason Dover backs up at high peak times is because of the volume of vehicles that cannot get into the Dock area to await clearance to board it can only hold so many vehicles at anyone time, there were only two French Officials on duty to check passports, which slowed things down even more, also the Travel Companies had booked more coaches than anticipated. Room is the issue our end made worse by the French usual attitude of being professional arseholes, the Port of Dover needs to be made larger but that is in itself is a problem not easily to overcome, plus there are only so many Ferries available every 24 hours, even one Ferry breaking down or slow turn around causes a knock on effect, as does bad weather |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 5, 2023 16:13:07 GMT
You are missing (or more likely deliberately avoiding) the point. So I'll try again in a forlorn hope of getting a sensible answer. If the UK does not put enough border guards on at its immigration desks at entry points to the country and as such there are long waiting lines for foreigners trying to gain entry - whose fault is that? From my experience, passenger queues at le Shuttle and ferry ports for entering the UK are subject to more customs checks than before Brexit.
Passport checks for entering seem about the same — UK always took longer at Dover and at le Shuttle Calais — that's why I try to avoid travelling at peak holiday times. But if Border Force doesn't have enough people on, of course that's their fault.
Before Brexit, outward bound British passport holders were often waived through at Folkestone and Dover or only photos were checked. Now, French officials manually inspect and stamp every passport as passengers leave the UK — all this takes additional time. The UK Government advises** UK travellers to ensure their passports get stamped on entry to show duration of visa-free travel to save any complications when they return. There are other items French border police may also ask travellers to produce: So if you increase the time it takes to do the checks then you need to put more officers on - and as I keep pointing out to you that is a decision for the French. Each individual country is responsible for the immigration queues at their points of entry. The US are responsible for the disaster that is Miami, the UK is responsible for Heathrow - and the French are responsible for entering France through Calais. Portugal had a similar issue with queues building up at their airports so changed their processes to mitigate the length of those queues - the solution is in the hands of the French if they want to make it easier to get into their country. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 11:45:01 GMT
Indeed, the French could increase the number of immigration officers and counters at the ports. Or, they could just wave British tourists through as though the UK was still a member of the EU. But they do not have to do it to accommodate travellers from non-EU countries.
We're a third country now and since it is us complaining about very long queues, then the issue is ours not theirs. We should learn to organise our trips to France around Brexit. Ditch that spur-of-the-moment trip to France mentality!
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Post by Vinny on Apr 6, 2023 11:48:48 GMT
From my experience, passenger queues at le Shuttle and ferry ports for entering the UK are subject to more customs checks than before Brexit.
Passport checks for entering seem about the same — UK always took longer at Dover and at le Shuttle Calais — that's why I try to avoid travelling at peak holiday times. But if Border Force doesn't have enough people on, of course that's their fault.
Before Brexit, outward bound British passport holders were often waived through at Folkestone and Dover or only photos were checked. Now, French officials manually inspect and stamp every passport as passengers leave the UK — all this takes additional time. The UK Government advises** UK travellers to ensure their passports get stamped on entry to show duration of visa-free travel to save any complications when they return. There are other items French border police may also ask travellers to produce: So if you increase the time it takes to do the checks then you need to put more officers on - and as I keep pointing out to you that is a decision for the French. Each individual country is responsible for the immigration queues at their points of entry. The US are responsible for the disaster that is Miami, the UK is responsible for Heathrow - and the French are responsible for entering France through Calais. Portugal had a similar issue with queues building up at their airports so changed their processes to mitigate the length of those queues - the solution is in the hands of the French if they want to make it easier to get into their country. Quite right. |
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Post by Handyman on Apr 6, 2023 12:11:35 GMT
It will get quicker flying out of London City Airport as they have installed 3D Security Cameras no need to take you laptops and similar out of you bag, no longer need to put liquids into little plastic bags, you can take larger liquid containers in you bag, so getting though security will be quicker, this will be rolled out at other airports, you will still need take your footwear off.
Yes Vinny the French can solve this at Dover, they do it on purpose IMHO
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Post by Toreador on Apr 6, 2023 14:27:51 GMT
It will get quicker flying out of London City Airport as they have installed 3D Security Cameras no need to take you laptops and similar out of you bag, no longer need to put liquids into little plastic bags, you can take larger liquid containers in you bag, so getting though security will be quicker, this will be rolled out at other airports, you will still need take your footwear off.
Yes Vinny the French can solve this at Dover, they do it on purpose IMHO I failed the electronic tester on one occasion and was asked to remove my shoes. I went through again and failed again so they asked me if I had anything metalic. So I lifted my swater to chow them the buckles on my braces. One of the customs officers was a comely young lasdy who burst out laughing so I asked if she would like me to take them off. In amongst the giggling she managed to say "Non"; miserable girl. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 21:38:10 GMT
Indeed, the French could increase the number of immigration officers and counters at the ports. Or, they could just wave British tourists through as though the UK was still a member of the EU. But they do not have to do it to accommodate travellers from non-EU countries. We're a third country now and since it is us complaining about very long queues, then the issue is ours not theirs. We should learn to organise our trips to France around Brexit. Ditch that spur-of-the-moment trip to France mentality! I know what the EU define as a "third country", i.e. one not in the EU "circle of trust" but I see you using it as if it is a slight on the UK. As far as the UK is concerned, we might be a "third country" to the EU, but we honestly are a "first country" when it comes to so many world organisations. Incidentally, try to organise trips to France avoiding the fires, rubber bullets and the like. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 7, 2023 8:03:32 GMT
Yes Vinny the French can solve this at Dover, they do it on purpose IMHO It seems we have always had this problem with the French. The only rational response left being to escalate the pettiness further...and so on. Like living next door to someone who doesn't like you and has severe developmental problems |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2023 9:13:09 GMT
Internationalism
A concept where nations and peoples do not compete against each other, but instead work together for the common good of all, and where protectionism and isolationism are the enemy.
EUROPE is a compact continent of 50 nations all bordering each other, all tied together historically, economically, culturally and all with the same or similar values, those of Liberal Democracy.
The leaders of Europe in the aftermath of the most destructive and most devastating war Europe has ever seen, decided that it was time to put together ideas for a United Europe, and Winston Churchill was one of those leaders.
The UK, France and Germany are no longer superpowers, neither are they going to be in the future, not militarily, not economically, but a united Europe is, and will be a force to be reckoned with, both economically and politically, and POTENTIALLY militarily.
But its NOT all about been part of something big to flex muscles, or to walk all over smaller nations, or to intimidate nations - its about creating something for the good of all the people of Europe, and as a force for good in the world, to push our values and European principles.
THe UK cannot develop a commercial passenger airliner to compete with Boeing, but by co-operating with Europe we can.
The UK can barely develop its own Fighter Jet, and if it did, it would stretch finances to a point where something would have to give, but by co-operating with Europe, its achieveable.
THE EUROPEAN DREAM is much more than just "trade", its about - everything - probably mostly about a safe, secure, united Europe in a very uncertain world.
Brexit is merely a setback, its absolutely inevitable that one day, we will be back in the European Union, I am 100% convinced of it. Because it just makes so much sense
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Post by Orac on Apr 7, 2023 9:18:35 GMT
Internationalism A concept where nations and peoples do not compete against each other, but instead work together for the common good of all Otherwise known as communism |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2023 9:38:07 GMT
Internationalism A concept where nations and peoples do not compete against each other, but instead work together for the common good of all Otherwise known as communism Communism ? ...... To work together to promote "Liberal Values" and the principles of a liberal democracy. Sure doesn't sound like Communism to me, communism is almost always authoritarian, one party state, the complete opposite of what the values of the EU are. |
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Post by Orac on Apr 7, 2023 9:44:41 GMT
Otherwise known as communism Communism ? ...... To work together to promote "Liberal Values" and the principles of a liberal democracy. Sure doesn't sound like Communism to me, communism is almost always authoritarian, one party state, the complete opposite of what the values of the EU are. You are conflating inconsistent notions with newspeak word salad. There is no feasible liberal-like situation in which people don't compete. Such a situation would need to be enforced. SidF wrote: A concept where nations and peoples do not compete against each other, but instead work together for the common good of alli.e. communism |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 7, 2023 10:17:38 GMT
But its NOT all about been part of something big to flex muscles, or to walk all over smaller nations, or to intimidate nations - its about creating something for the good of all the people of Europe, and as a force for good in the world, to push our values and European principles. THe UK cannot develop a commercial passenger airliner to compete with Boeing, but by co-operating with Europe we can.
The UK can barely develop its own Fighter Jet, and if it did, it would stretch finances to a point where something would have to give, but by co-operating with Europe, its achieveable.THE EUROPEAN DREAM is much more than just "trade", its about - everything - probably mostly about a safe, secure, united Europe in a very uncertain world. But we jointly developed airliners and fighter jets with other European countries for decades before the EU was created. Why do we need to have the same government to carry on doing this? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2023 10:56:22 GMT
But its NOT all about been part of something big to flex muscles, or to walk all over smaller nations, or to intimidate nations - its about creating something for the good of all the people of Europe, and as a force for good in the world, to push our values and European principles. THe UK cannot develop a commercial passenger airliner to compete with Boeing, but by co-operating with Europe we can.
The UK can barely develop its own Fighter Jet, and if it did, it would stretch finances to a point where something would have to give, but by co-operating with Europe, its achieveable.THE EUROPEAN DREAM is much more than just "trade", its about - everything - probably mostly about a safe, secure, united Europe in a very uncertain world. But we jointly developed airliners and fighter jets with other European countries for decades before the EU was created. Why do we need to have the same government to carry on doing this? Actually - no we were not Let me give you one very simple example of what having the same regulations all across Europe means, and how it makes doing business easier, simpler and less complicated. The UK now has two Capital Class Aircraft Carriers, HMS Queen Elizabeth (in service) and HMS Prince of Wales, the largest vessels ever to have been operated by the Royal Navy. These two ships were built jointly by BAE Systems (UK) and Thales (France) How much easier do you feel it is for European defence contractors to work in conjunction with each other with the harmonisation of such things as Electrical Instalation and Wiring codes, standards, colours and specifications. ? One simple example of how much easier it is to co-operate can be found in European Committee for Electrotechnical Standardization. ? What about European harmonisation of Telecommunications - European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) My point here is that by Europe having the same standards, same regulations, same rules, makes co-operation so much easier, it makes building things easier, it makes developments in everything from science, medicine, defence, engineering easier and cheaper. |
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