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Post by Bentley on Apr 2, 2023 0:57:59 GMT
The EU allowed a huge swath of poor countries to join the EU . I don’t expect hundreds of thousands of poor Vietnamese to wash up on our shores undermining wages and working conditions any time soon. Indeed. They get trafficked in container lorries and left to die in UK ports. Yoy dont get it do you. Human trafficking is GLOBAL. And The UK has for years used far Eastern cheap labour . How do you think places like Primark can sell two tee shirts for a fiver? So now with this new CPTTPPTCPT thing that is going to be baked into the UK economy. Of course the government thinks it is a wonderful idea. It is open to data theft, information corruption, lack of legal recourse in itself...the WTO will have to deal with disputes, there will be lack of standards of quality and workers' rights human trafficking and cheap labour. At least none of that will blow back into the EU where such things are illegal. Other than that, good luck. Whoosh . Right over your head it goes 😁 |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 2, 2023 6:38:40 GMT
IN all my reading about this there is almost no mention of data protection or inspection of goods crossing national boundaries.
IOW the complaints you had about the porous border controls in the EU, the lack of connection with the people, the lack of transparency and controls over smuggling and trafficking and the potential for China and its sympthisers, its willingness to accept historically and potentially unstable governments, and no visible control of covert exchange of sensitive information, makes me think this enthusiasm is reckless, especially if the benefits to UK growth are so tiny.
Time will tell too if the looser regulations of origin and quality will allow products sourced through this pact will be allowed into the EU or be modified for resale.
I prefer to wait and see.
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Post by patman post on Apr 2, 2023 13:19:56 GMT
IN all my reading about this there is almost no mention of data protection or inspection of goods crossing national boundaries. IOW the complaints you had about the porous border controls in the EU, the lack of connection with the people, the lack of transparency and controls over smuggling and trafficking and the potential for China and its sympthisers, its willingness to accept historically and potentially unstable governments, and no visible control of covert exchange of sensitive information, makes me think this enthusiasm is reckless, especially if the benefits to UK growth are so tiny. Time will tell too if the looser regulations of origin and quality will allow products sourced through this pact will be allowed into the EU or be modified for resale. I prefer to wait and see. Waiting is another hallmark of Brexit’s failure to make life better. The UK’s status of a third country outside the EU is causing immense delays to once such simple procedures as travelling by rail or ferry to the EU because all passports need to be stamped — at ports this used to take about 10 to 20 secs per car of four. Now it takes at least a minute and a half, and 20 minutes or more for a coach load of passengers. Eurostar doesn’t have the space to process full trainloads of passengers waiting to have their passports stamped, so it appears to be limiting ticket sales and trains are now leaving half to two-thirds full. It looks like the ferry companies will also have to limit vehicle and passenger numbers in future. Beware blaming the French for this current state of affairs — the UK negotiated its new status and the Foreign Office warns UK travellers to ensure their passports are stamped to avoid trouble on their return having to prove they haven’t spent more than 90 days of the previous 180 days in the EU. Strange how the UK’s “regained” sovereignty has restricted the ease of travel for UK citizens… |
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 2, 2023 17:14:45 GMT
IN all my reading about this there is almost no mention of data protection or inspection of goods crossing national boundaries. IOW the complaints you had about the porous border controls in the EU, the lack of connection with the people, the lack of transparency and controls over smuggling and trafficking and the potential for China and its sympthisers, its willingness to accept historically and potentially unstable governments, and no visible control of covert exchange of sensitive information, makes me think this enthusiasm is reckless, especially if the benefits to UK growth are so tiny. Time will tell too if the looser regulations of origin and quality will allow products sourced through this pact will be allowed into the EU or be modified for resale. I prefer to wait and see. Waiting is another hallmark of Brexit’s failure to make life better. The UK’s status of a third country outside the EU is causing immense delays to once such simple procedures as travelling by rail or ferry to the EU because all passports need to be stamped — at ports this used to take about 10 to 20 secs per car of four. Now it takes at least a minute and a half, and 20 minutes or more for a coach load of passengers. Eurostar doesn’t have the space to process full trainloads of passengers waiting to have their passports stamped, so it appears to be limiting ticket sales and trains are now leaving half to two-thirds full. It looks like the ferry companies will also have to limit vehicle and passenger numbers in future. Beware blaming the French for this current state of affairs — the UK negotiated its new status and the Foreign Office warns UK travellers to ensure their passports are stamped to avoid trouble on their return having to prove they haven’t spent more than 90 days of the previous 180 days in the EU. Strange how the UK’s “regained” sovereignty has restricted the ease of travel for UK citizens… So when there are massive queues at Heathrow of people trying to get through immigration, it is not the fault of the UK for failing to put on enough border guards it's some other obscure reason? |
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Post by patman post on Apr 2, 2023 18:26:04 GMT
LHR to CDG isn't likely to account for much traffic, seasonal or otherwise.
Plus, flying to France is no more inconvenient than flying always is. I've had to use the plane a couple of times recently because of Eurostar restrictions and ferry being a no no for one or two-day trips.
LCY is a good airport for some other European venues too...
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Post by Pacifico on Apr 2, 2023 21:50:50 GMT
LHR to CDG isn't likely to account for much traffic, seasonal or otherwise. Plus, flying to France is no more inconvenient than flying always is. I've had to use the plane a couple of times recently because of Eurostar restrictions and ferry being a no no for one or two-day trips. LCY is a good airport for some other European venues too... You are missing (or more likely deliberately avoiding) the point. So I'll try again in a forlorn hope of getting a sensible answer. If the UK does not put enough border guards on at its immigration desks at entry points to the country and as such there are long waiting lines for foreigners trying to gain entry - whose fault is that? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 13:33:23 GMT
Ah, No. Reiterating your non-argument doesn't cut it. "Nuff said" is not enough -- that is, if you want an intelligent discussion about your own post. You have to clarify your position. So. Do you or do you not agree that the CPTPP rules on fair competition (as gleaned from the article, of course) are no different from the EU level-playing-field rules?No. They are different.The EU has limited provisions in its so-called 'level playing field' with Canada and Japan; it singled the UK out for more constraining treatment when it came to a FTA. But at least with the CPTPP (like all other trade deals around the world except the EU of course), allows the UK to focus on free trade while keeping its national sovereignty. Great eh? The EU would have sanctioned the UK if the government had violated EU state aid rules. Now with the CPTPP, private companies could, apparently, sue the UK for unfair competition if it so much as increased the minimum wage. So, they're not different, really. It's more like the same principle; different personalities. So what IF the EU "singled out" the UK? Brexit fundamentalists & purists need to grow up and stopped playing the innocent victim card. The EU treated us the way we asked to be treated. We chose to be a third country and we negotiated an FTA with them accordingly. Unfortunately for us, they were in a much stronger position. They negotiated their position very well. That they themselves wanted an FTA with the UK was or is beside the point. That's all there is to it. Keeping our national sovereignty? We never lost our national sovereignty, if that's what you're driving at. We shared a small part of it, yes, but lost it? No. At any rate, all trade deals around the world undermine a state's sovereignty one way or another. How can the CPTPP agreement be any different in that respect? You have to get your head around the fact that globalisation has created a diluted, eroded, qualified or shared form of sovereignty. You cling to this idea that sovereignty always has to be absolute, allowing a state to do what it pleases. Only North Korea espouses that ideal. But the UK is not NK. We're not a hermit economy. We are a willing participant in globalisation, international trade and relations. And the reality is, participating in such entails compromising a part of your sovereignty for the sake of your economy or your international relations. So, your thing about keeping national sovereignty while agreeing to abide by rules and regulations imposed by others doesn't really make sense. |
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Post by Vinny on Apr 4, 2023 13:50:14 GMT
The UK’s status of a third country outside the EU is causing immense delays to once such simple procedures as travelling by rail or ferry Nonsense. Operation Stack has been going since 1988. Every time French port workers go on strike (which is a lot of the time) it's been triggered. It's nothing to do with Brexit and everything to do with the French who at the moment are throwing a massive tantrum about having to retire at 64 rather than 62. |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 4, 2023 19:59:09 GMT
No. They are different.The EU has limited provisions in its so-called 'level playing field' with Canada and Japan; it singled the UK out for more constraining treatment when it came to a FTA. But at least with the CPTPP (like all other trade deals around the world except the EU of course), allows the UK to focus on free trade while keeping its national sovereignty. Great eh? The EU would have sanctioned the UK if the government had violated EU state aid rules. Now with the CPTPP, private companies could, apparently, sue the UK for unfair competition if it so much as increased the minimum wage. So, they're not different, really. It's more like the same principle; different personalities. So what IF the EU "singled out" the UK? Brexit fundamentalists & purists need to grow up and stopped playing the innocent victim card. The EU treated us the way we asked to be treated. We chose to be a third country and we negotiated an FTA with them accordingly. Unfortunately for us, they were in a much stronger position. They negotiated their position very well. That they themselves wanted an FTA with the UK was or is beside the point. That's all there is to it. Keeping our national sovereignty? We never lost our national sovereignty, if that's what you're driving at. We shared a small part of it, yes, but lost it? No. At any rate, all trade deals around the world undermine a state's sovereignty one way or another. How can the CPTPP agreement be any different in that respect? You have to get your head around the fact that globalisation has created a diluted, eroded, qualified or shared form of sovereignty. You cling to this idea that sovereignty always has to be absolute, allowing a state to do what it pleases. Only North Korea espouses that ideal. But the UK is not NK. We're not a hermit economy. We are a willing participant in globalisation, international trade and relations. And the reality is, participating in such entails compromising a part of your sovereignty for the sake of your economy or your international relations. So, your thing about keeping national sovereignty while agreeing to abide by rules and regulations imposed by others doesn't really make sense. What a load of rubbish. The UK has signed a pure trade deal being in the CPTPP. No politics. No currency union. No FoM. No foreign judges presiding over swathes of EU law. No annual fees. No tariffs imposed on third countries. No giving up territorial waters for others to pillage and plunder etc etc. A simple Free trade Agreement. |
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Post by oracle75 on Apr 4, 2023 20:25:25 GMT
And no democracy.
And no China.
Yet.
Whose trade power is universal.
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 4, 2023 20:48:17 GMT
What are you wittering on about Kim?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2023 20:56:56 GMT
The EU would have sanctioned the UK if the government had violated EU state aid rules. Now with the CPTPP, private companies could, apparently, sue the UK for unfair competition if it so much as increased the minimum wage. So, they're not different, really. It's more like the same principle; different personalities. So what IF the EU "singled out" the UK? Brexit fundamentalists & purists need to grow up and stopped playing the innocent victim card. The EU treated us the way we asked to be treated. We chose to be a third country and we negotiated an FTA with them accordingly. Unfortunately for us, they were in a much stronger position. They negotiated their position very well. That they themselves wanted an FTA with the UK was or is beside the point. That's all there is to it. Keeping our national sovereignty? We never lost our national sovereignty, if that's what you're driving at. We shared a small part of it, yes, but lost it? No. At any rate, all trade deals around the world undermine a state's sovereignty one way or another. How can the CPTPP agreement be any different in that respect? You have to get your head around the fact that globalisation has created a diluted, eroded, qualified or shared form of sovereignty. You cling to this idea that sovereignty always has to be absolute, allowing a state to do what it pleases. Only North Korea espouses that ideal. But the UK is not NK. We're not a hermit economy. We are a willing participant in globalisation, international trade and relations. And the reality is, participating in such entails compromising a part of your sovereignty for the sake of your economy or your international relations. So, your thing about keeping national sovereignty while agreeing to abide by rules and regulations imposed by others doesn't really make sense. What a load of rubbish. The UK has signed a pure trade deal being in the CPTPP. No politics. No currency union. No FoM. No foreign judges presiding over swathes of EU law. No annual fees. No tariffs imposed on third countries. No giving up territorial waters for others to pillage and plunder etc etc. A simple Free trade Agreement. You're only saying that CPTPP membership is less onerous than EU membership. Fine, but both follow the same principle, i.e., you accept and follow rules and regulations that may be in conflict with your own in exchange for membership. Further, EU membership may have been more onerous but the amount of trade it generated for the UK was in the hundreds of billions of pounds. The CPTPP? 1-something billion, apparently. No match. To compare the CPTPP with the EU is not fair on the CPTPP. |
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Post by Toreador on Apr 4, 2023 21:02:15 GMT
What a load of rubbish. The UK has signed a pure trade deal being in the CPTPP. No politics. No currency union. No FoM. No foreign judges presiding over swathes of EU law. No annual fees. No tariffs imposed on third countries. No giving up territorial waters for others to pillage and plunder etc etc. A simple Free trade Agreement. You're only saying that CPTPP membership is less onerous than EU membership. Fine, but both follow the same principle, i.e., you accept and follow rules and regulations that may be in conflict with your own in exchange for membership. Further, EU membership may have been more onerous but the amount of trade it generated for the UK was in the hundreds of billions of pounds. The CPTPP? 1-something billion, apparently. No match. To compare the CPTPP with the EU is not fair on the CPTPP. We're still trading with the EU, the CPTPP is additional. |
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Post by buccaneer on Apr 4, 2023 21:14:14 GMT
You're only saying that CPTPP membership is less onerous than EU membership. Fine, but both follow the same principle, i.e., you accept and follow rules and regulations that may be in conflict with your own in exchange for membership. Further, EU membership may have been more onerous but the amount of trade it generated for the UK was in the hundreds of billions of pounds. The CPTPP? 1-something billion, apparently. No match. To compare the CPTPP with the EU is not fair on the CPTPP. We're still trading with the EU, the CPTPP is additional. Indeed. Britain will have the best of both worlds. Cherry picking. And the CPTPP has some of the world's fastest growing and affluent markets. |
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Post by patman post on Apr 5, 2023 11:25:50 GMT
LHR to CDG isn't likely to account for much traffic, seasonal or otherwise. Plus, flying to France is no more inconvenient than flying always is. I've had to use the plane a couple of times recently because of Eurostar restrictions and ferry being a no no for one or two-day trips. LCY is a good airport for some other European venues too... You are missing (or more likely deliberately avoiding) the point. So I'll try again in a forlorn hope of getting a sensible answer. If the UK does not put enough border guards on at its immigration desks at entry points to the country and as such there are long waiting lines for foreigners trying to gain entry - whose fault is that? From my experience, passenger queues at le Shuttle and ferry ports for entering the UK are subject to more customs checks than before Brexit.
Passport checks for entering seem about the same — UK always took longer at Dover and at le Shuttle Calais — that's why I try to avoid travelling at peak holiday times. But if Border Force doesn't have enough people on, of course that's their fault.
Before Brexit, outward bound British passport holders were often waived through at Folkestone and Dover or only photos were checked. Now, French officials manually inspect and stamp every passport as passengers leave the UK — all this takes additional time. The UK Government advises** UK travellers to ensure their passports get stamped on entry to show duration of visa-free travel to save any complications when they return. There are other items French border police may also ask travellers to produce:
Though individuals still try to wrap up the cause, senior Tory MPs now admit Brexit is to blame for the Dover travel misery blighting Britons’ Easter holiday trips to the Continent...
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