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Post by thomas on Mar 29, 2023 8:03:45 GMT
If you cant post a link that works for me , then at least quantify in your own words how you think corbyn did better than blair. However much i despise blair , i cant see it. He is comparing 2017 with 2005. Jeremy Corbyn has won a larger share of the vote in last night's election than Tony Blair achieved when he took power in 2005.
With 648 of the 650 seats declared, Labour currently sits on just over 40 per cent of the vote, significantly higher than the 35.2 per cent the party managed in 2005.
In his last general election, Mr Blair won a majority with 355 seats, and although Mr Corbyn is currently a long way behind on 261, his share of the popular vote is significantly higher.So blairs lowest with corbyns highest? 
FFS cheers pacifico. We really are through the looking glass now with the labour lefties.
I mean i already went over this earlier in the thread. The like for like comparison is of course blairs best with corbyns best. Which blair wins hands down.
Had labour a competent leader and competent party in 2017 , they should easily have beaten one of the worst tory prime ministers in history as i said at the time , along with many others.
Surely the whole point of taking part in elections is to win them to put your policies in action? Not to crow about your best vote share compared to someone else worst vote in some canonising of lefty failure?
Jesus! No wonder labours left get mocked relentlessly as student type politics down the local bar in islington talking revolution.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 10:13:25 GMT
He is comparing 2017 with 2005. Jeremy Corbyn has won a larger share of the vote in last night's election than Tony Blair achieved when he took power in 2005.
With 648 of the 650 seats declared, Labour currently sits on just over 40 per cent of the vote, significantly higher than the 35.2 per cent the party managed in 2005.
In his last general election, Mr Blair won a majority with 355 seats, and although Mr Corbyn is currently a long way behind on 261, his share of the popular vote is significantly higher.So blairs lowest with corbyns highest?
FFS cheers pacifico. We really are through the looking glass now with the labour lefties.
I mean i already went over this earlier in the thread. The like for like comparison is of course blairs best with corbyns best. Which blair wins hands down.
Had labour a competent leader and competent party in 2017 , they should easily have beaten one of the worst tory prime ministers in history as i said at the time , along with many others.
Surely the whole point of taking part in elections is to win them to put your policies in action? Not to crow about your best vote share compared to someone else worst vote in some canonising of lefty failure?
Jesus! No wonder labours left get mocked relentlessly as student type politics down the local bar in islington talking revolution.
Jeez. link |
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Post by dodgydave on Mar 30, 2023 2:53:12 GMT
Think what Starmer did, he said anybody expressing an opinion on a report would be booted out of the party. Now I can understand why they might be banned from the shadow cabinet, but to deny a fellow MP their right to an opinion is a disgrace. Personally, I can't stand Corbyn. However, Labour has always been a broad church of Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists, and there is nothing wrong with that because the Labour support is a broad church too. Claiming "New Labour" has been in power longer than "Old Labour" so they need to rid the party of Democratic Socialists is just bollocks. The party was still a broad church under Blair. The cabinet runs the government, not the party, so you can just stack the shadow cabinet with Social Democrats. If a Leader cannot cope with scrutiny from his own party, or allow his MPs to express opinions, then that is not leadership. Leadership is taking people with you, not bullying them into silence. No, I think you're wrong. Labour are not a broad church, Labour are two parties, Blairites and Corbynites. Blair without a doubt moved the party to the centre which is why he was in power for ten years and remains the most successful Labour prime minister in the history of the party. However, there will always be an extreme left wing element within Labour, on the periphery perhaps but there all the same, and Starmer knows it. Which is why Starmer is now publicly dissing Corbyn, a man he previously supported and said was the next prime minister of the UK. Starmer is more slippery than an eel. What are you talking about, Blair literally had John Prescott as his deputy to unite the factions. Blair kept the likes of Corbyn away from the front benches, but he still understood that he had a place in the party. Starmer on the other hand is kicking / deselecting his opponents out of the party. Not very democratic is it? Saying Labour is made up of Blairites and Corbynites is the biggest load of nonsense I have read in a long time. Labour is a broad church of centre-left to left wing. Corbyn is a Democratic Socialist, one of many within the Labour party. His beliefs are not radical, they are shared by many Democratic Socialists. He isn't extreme left either, that is the communists lol. People like Raynor and Nandy are neither Blairites or Corbynites, they identify themselves as "soft left" aka Social Democrats. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 30, 2023 6:57:26 GMT
So blairs lowest with corbyns highest?
FFS cheers pacifico. We really are through the looking glass now with the labour lefties.
I mean i already went over this earlier in the thread. The like for like comparison is of course blairs best with corbyns best. Which blair wins hands down.
Had labour a competent leader and competent party in 2017 , they should easily have beaten one of the worst tory prime ministers in history as i said at the time , along with many others.
Surely the whole point of taking part in elections is to win them to put your policies in action? Not to crow about your best vote share compared to someone else worst vote in some canonising of lefty failure?
Jesus! No wonder labours left get mocked relentlessly as student type politics down the local bar in islington talking revolution.
Jeez. linkIm not looking at any link. If you cant be arsed highlighting the pertinent part as per the norm , then i cant be arsed reading some mad fuckin link.
Well done jeremy for losing two elections , but winning more votes than blair did in one of them.
Like i said , its playground student politics stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 8:30:59 GMT
Im not looking at any link. If you cant be arsed highlighting the pertinent part as per the norm , then i cant be arsed reading some mad fuckin link.
Well done jeremy for losing two elections , but winning more votes than blair did in one of them.
Like i said , its playground student politics stuff.
You see it was an answer to another person comments and I was just correcting the record. Corbyn has been elected to parliament for over 40 years by his constituents, they should know what they are doing. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Mar 30, 2023 10:06:32 GMT
For most of its history, the Labour Party has struggled with the Orthodox Socialists versus the more moderate sections of the party. The militants within the Labour Party scuppered Jim Callaghans "prices and incomes" policies to fight inflation, and they handed the 1979 general election on a silver platter to Margaret Thatcher. The militants caused the split in the Labour Party which resulted in the SDP, thereby splitting the vote, and enabling the Conservatives victory. The militants have been arguing for 100 years that Britain should be some kind of Socialist state, and where private enterprise, profit and successfull business is somehow immoral. The modern day Corbynite is so out of touch with what we once called "Working Class", and what I call "ordinary people". The Labour Party is proving once again, just as it did under Tony Blair, that a MODERATE Left of centre Social Democratic political party can be a winner. The evidence is in the history, and the evidence is there today for all to see - Corbyn never achieved the kind of polling numbers that we have now seen for over a year now. The Labour Party has attempted for too long to bridge a political divide that is too wide, its time to put an end to pretending the party can be all things to all people. Barring Corbyn from standing as a Labour candidate is a warning that the party is over for the orthodox Socialists and far Left. Let him stand as an independent, if he wins then so what, its only one constituency out of 650 Tony Blair a ‘moderate left’. Christ that’s good i needed a laugh I don't know where the page went but one of the more interesting pages posted by a website called ‘the political compass’ analysed the policies of governments and tony blair came out as more right wing than some conservative governments. Its also worth pointing out Blair tried to privatise bits of the NHS that even Maggie T thought a step too far |
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Post by thomas on Mar 30, 2023 14:39:32 GMT
Im not looking at any link. If you cant be arsed highlighting the pertinent part as per the norm , then i cant be arsed reading some mad fuckin link.
Well done jeremy for losing two elections , but winning more votes than blair did in one of them.
Like i said , its playground student politics stuff.
You see it was an answer to another person comments and I was just correcting the record. Corbyn has been elected to parliament for over 40 years by his constituents, they should know what they are doing. you havent corrected anything. You are merely making yourself look foolish .
keep clutching away at all those straws.
who is arguing otherwise? Tell keir starmer and your labour party heroes who want to stop him representing labour. Not me.
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Post by thomas on Mar 30, 2023 14:44:56 GMT
For most of its history, the Labour Party has struggled with the Orthodox Socialists versus the more moderate sections of the party. The militants within the Labour Party scuppered Jim Callaghans "prices and incomes" policies to fight inflation, and they handed the 1979 general election on a silver platter to Margaret Thatcher. The militants caused the split in the Labour Party which resulted in the SDP, thereby splitting the vote, and enabling the Conservatives victory. The militants have been arguing for 100 years that Britain should be some kind of Socialist state, and where private enterprise, profit and successfull business is somehow immoral. The modern day Corbynite is so out of touch with what we once called "Working Class", and what I call "ordinary people". The Labour Party is proving once again, just as it did under Tony Blair, that a MODERATE Left of centre Social Democratic political party can be a winner. The evidence is in the history, and the evidence is there today for all to see - Corbyn never achieved the kind of polling numbers that we have now seen for over a year now. The Labour Party has attempted for too long to bridge a political divide that is too wide, its time to put an end to pretending the party can be all things to all people. Barring Corbyn from standing as a Labour candidate is a warning that the party is over for the orthodox Socialists and far Left. Let him stand as an independent, if he wins then so what, its only one constituency out of 650 Tony Blair a ‘moderate left’. Christ that’s good i needed a laugh |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 16:46:08 GMT
You see it was an answer to another person comments and I was just correcting the record. Corbyn has been elected to parliament for over 40 years by his constituents, they should know what they are doing. you havent corrected anything. You are merely making yourself look foolish .
keep clutching away at all those straws.
who is arguing otherwise? Tell keir starmer and your labour party heroes who want to stop him representing labour. Not me.
Your 2 comments contradict each other re my comments.🤣 And I have. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 30, 2023 17:06:10 GMT
Is there a more dishonest politician in Parliament?. Press: Will Labour freeze council tax this year? Labour: No, we’re not in government. Council tax freeze policy is if the party was hypothetically in government now. Press: Will Labour freeze council tax if they win the next general election? Labour: No, we can’t commit. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 30, 2023 19:06:21 GMT
you havent corrected anything. You are merely making yourself look foolish .
keep clutching away at all those straws.
who is arguing otherwise? Tell keir starmer and your labour party heroes who want to stop him representing labour. Not me.
Your 2 comments contradict each other re my comments.🤣 And I have. Where? How?
Lets sadly once again recap for those who like to litter threads with bullshit and innuendo.
I entered this thread on page two , where i replied to see 2 , not one of my favourite posters , that he was correct when he said this...
That is and remains a factually correct statement , backed up with links to your parliament in this thread.
you then replied to me with this at the bottom of that same page...
Neither see 2 in his sentence i quoted or i had talked at that point about percentages , merely seats and corbyn taking the lowest amount of them for labour since 1935 .
So in your immediate reply to me , you are already disingenuously going off at a tangent about something no one is talking about.
We can follow the thread from there , see pacifico kindly clarifying your lame point , while you continue to affle on about jeremy doing great for losing two elections because he beat tony blairs lowest vote share in one of them.
Not content with accepting you are talking guff and throwing in straw men to cover your arse , you continue to litter the thread further with more bullshit and innuendo.
Like i said red. Playground student politics. you wonder why your fellow countrymen reject the english left so often at election time with your refusal to accept reality , and revolutions down the pub with wolfie smith type politics.
over and out.
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Post by see2 on Mar 30, 2023 19:31:44 GMT
Is there a more dishonest politician in Parliament?. Press: Will Labour freeze council tax this year? Labour: No, we’re not in government. Council tax freeze policy is if the party was hypothetically in government now. Press: Will Labour freeze council tax if they win the next general election? Labour: No, we can’t commit. Is there a more dishonest poster^^^? "Press: Will Labour freeze council tax this year? "Labour: No, we’re not in government. Council tax freeze policy is if the party was hypothetically in government now." ---- That's clear enough. "Press: Will Labour freeze council tax if they win the next general election?" Labour: "No, we can’t commit". ---- No politician should 'COMMIT' to a situation that has yet to reveal itself. Commonsense, which is something you seem to lack these days. |
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Post by see2 on Mar 30, 2023 19:42:36 GMT
No, I think you're wrong. Labour are not a broad church, Labour are two parties, Blairites and Corbynites. Blair without a doubt moved the party to the centre which is why he was in power for ten years and remains the most successful Labour prime minister in the history of the party. However, there will always be an extreme left wing element within Labour, on the periphery perhaps but there all the same, and Starmer knows it. Which is why Starmer is now publicly dissing Corbyn, a man he previously supported and said was the next prime minister of the UK. Starmer is more slippery than an eel. What are you talking about, Blair literally had John Prescott as his deputy to unite the factions. Blair kept the likes of Corbyn away from the front benches, but he still understood that he had a place in the party. Starmer on the other hand is kicking / deselecting his opponents out of the party. Not very democratic is it? Saying Labour is made up of Blairites and Corbynites is the biggest load of nonsense I have read in a long time. Labour is a broad church of centre-left to left wing. Corbyn is a Democratic Socialist, one of many within the Labour party. His beliefs are not radical, they are shared by many Democratic Socialists. He isn't extreme left either, that is the communists lol. People like Raynor and Nandy are neither Blairites or Corbynites, they identify themselves as "soft left" aka Social Democrats. Correct, Corbyn isn't extreme left, he is hard left so hard he cannot support the moderate left under Starmer, even though Starmer supported him when he was leader. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 20:13:19 GMT
If I wanted to vote for a political party which advocated unilateral nuclear dissarmament, orthodox Socialism, repubicanism and capitulation to war mongers, then I would vote for the Socialist Workers Party or for Arthur Scargills Socialist Labour Party.
The Labour Party is by its very nature a tolerant organisation, but the reality is that people like Jeremy Corbyn, Diane Abbot, Richard Burgon and Jon Lansman dont really fit into the modern day Labour Party.
For me, the Labour Party is now electable again, and it is the party that it should be, championing Social Justice and a moral brand of Capitalism, NOT some kind of pressure group where some members are Anti Capitalist, and believe that a Labour government can tax and borrow until the cows come home.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 30, 2023 21:18:22 GMT
"Press: Will Labour freeze council tax this year? "Labour: No, we’re not in government. Council tax freeze policy is if the party was hypothetically in government now." ---- That's clear enough. So a policy commitment that you know wil have no chance of being enacted. and a refusal to make a policy commitment that you have a good chance of enacting. you are as dishonest as Starmer.  |
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