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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 21:22:01 GMT
For most of its history, the Labour Party has struggled with the Orthodox Socialists versus the more moderate sections of the party.
The militants within the Labour Party scuppered Jim Callaghans "prices and incomes" policies to fight inflation, and they handed the 1979 general election on a silver platter to Margaret Thatcher.
The militants caused the split in the Labour Party which resulted in the SDP, thereby splitting the vote, and enabling the Conservatives victory.
The militants have been arguing for 100 years that Britain should be some kind of Socialist state, and where private enterprise, profit and successfull business is somehow immoral. The modern day Corbynite is so out of touch with what we once called "Working Class", and what I call "ordinary people".
The Labour Party is proving once again, just as it did under Tony Blair, that a MODERATE Left of centre Social Democratic political party can be a winner. The evidence is in the history, and the evidence is there today for all to see - Corbyn never achieved the kind of polling numbers that we have now seen for over a year now.
The Labour Party has attempted for too long to bridge a political divide that is too wide, its time to put an end to pretending the party can be all things to all people.
Barring Corbyn from standing as a Labour candidate is a warning that the party is over for the orthodox Socialists and far Left.
Let him stand as an independent, if he wins then so what, its only one constituency out of 650
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Post by johnofgwent on Mar 28, 2023 21:34:00 GMT
For most of its history, the Labour Party has struggled with the Orthodox Socialists versus the more moderate sections of the party. The militants within the Labour Party scuppered Jim Callaghans "prices and incomes" policies to fight inflation, and they handed the 1979 general election on a silver platter to Margaret Thatcher. The militants caused the split in the Labour Party which resulted in the SDP, thereby splitting the vote, and enabling the Conservatives victory. The militants have been arguing for 100 years that Britain should be some kind of Socialist state, and where private enterprise, profit and successfull business is somehow immoral. The modern day Corbynite is so out of touch with what we once called "Working Class", and what I call "ordinary people". The Labour Party is proving once again, just as it did under Tony Blair, that a MODERATE Left of centre Social Democratic political party can be a winner. The evidence is in the history, and the evidence is there today for all to see - Corbyn never achieved the kind of polling numbers that we have now seen for over a year now. The Labour Party has attempted for too long to bridge a political divide that is too wide, its time to put an end to pretending the party can be all things to all people. Barring Corbyn from standing as a Labour candidate is a warning that the party is over for the orthodox Socialists and far Left. Let him stand as an independent, if he wins then so what, its only one constituency out of 650 600 if the revisionists get their way (and i think they should) but yes i hear you. The real question is who he chooses to stand against (and where). The fight in Blaenau Gwent over an all woman shortlists left a scar for a decade. But that was a labour decision that cost them their majority and has continued to do so for two decades. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2023 21:41:24 GMT
Well apparently johnofgwent he will stand in Islington
The far Left have on numerous occassions broken away from the Labour Party to form their own party, the most recent been Arthur Scargills "Socialist Labour Party", but time after time they never attain any electoral success.
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Post by andrewbrown on Mar 28, 2023 22:47:02 GMT
Well apparently johnofgwent he will stand in Islington The far Left have on numerous occassions broken away from the Labour Party to form their own party, the most recent been Arthur Scargills "Socialist Labour Party", but time after time they never attain any electoral success. Indeed, Dave Nellist is still very active here in Coventry even into his 70s. He even stood in the Brum Erdington by-election last year and came a respectable third. Has been a member of two parties since being kicked out of Labour and has been a big supporter of Corbyn. His wife is on the exec committee of one of the teaching unions and often does a lot of radio interviews here. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 28, 2023 23:17:47 GMT
For most of its history, the Labour Party has struggled with the Orthodox Socialists versus the more moderate sections of the party. The militants within the Labour Party scuppered Jim Callaghans "prices and incomes" policies to fight inflation, and they handed the 1979 general election on a silver platter to Margaret Thatcher. The militants caused the split in the Labour Party which resulted in the SDP, thereby splitting the vote, and enabling the Conservatives victory. The militants have been arguing for 100 years that Britain should be some kind of Socialist state, and where private enterprise, profit and successfull business is somehow immoral. The modern day Corbynite is so out of touch with what we once called "Working Class", and what I call "ordinary people". The Labour Party is proving once again, just as it did under Tony Blair, that a MODERATE Left of centre Social Democratic political party can be a winner. The evidence is in the history, and the evidence is there today for all to see - Corbyn never achieved the kind of polling numbers that we have now seen for over a year now. The Labour Party has attempted for too long to bridge a political divide that is too wide, its time to put an end to pretending the party can be all things to all people. Barring Corbyn from standing as a Labour candidate is a warning that the party is over for the orthodox Socialists and far Left. Let him stand as an independent, if he wins then so what, its only one constituency out of 650 I listened to some archive stuff last night which included Jim Callaghan addressing the House on 28 March 1979 after he lost the famous vote of no confidence by one single vote, 311 to 310, because Sir Alfred Broughton (Batley and Morley) was too ill to attend the vote. A course of events that heralded the rise of Thatcher and 18 years of opposition for Labour. |
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Post by dodgydave on Mar 29, 2023 0:38:07 GMT
Think what Starmer did, he said anybody expressing an opinion on a report would be booted out of the party. Now I can understand why they might be banned from the shadow cabinet, but to deny a fellow MP their right to an opinion is a disgrace.
Personally, I can't stand Corbyn. However, Labour has always been a broad church of Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists, and there is nothing wrong with that because the Labour support is a broad church too.
Claiming "New Labour" has been in power longer than "Old Labour" so they need to rid the party of Democratic Socialists is just bollocks. The party was still a broad church under Blair. The cabinet runs the government, not the party, so you can just stack the shadow cabinet with Social Democrats.
If a Leader cannot cope with scrutiny from his own party, or allow his MPs to express opinions, then that is not leadership. Leadership is taking people with you, not bullying them into silence.
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 29, 2023 0:57:50 GMT
Think what Starmer did, he said anybody expressing an opinion on a report would be booted out of the party. Now I can understand why they might be banned from the shadow cabinet, but to deny a fellow MP their right to an opinion is a disgrace. Personally, I can't stand Corbyn. However, Labour has always been a broad church of Social Democrats and Democratic Socialists, and there is nothing wrong with that because the Labour support is a broad church too. Claiming "New Labour" has been in power longer than "Old Labour" so they need to rid the party of Democratic Socialists is just bollocks. The party was still a broad church under Blair. The cabinet runs the government, not the party, so you can just stack the shadow cabinet with Social Democrats. If a Leader cannot cope with scrutiny from his own party, or allow his MPs to express opinions, then that is not leadership. Leadership is taking people with you, not bullying them into silence. No, I think you're wrong. Labour are not a broad church, Labour are two parties, Blairites and Corbynites. Blair without a doubt moved the party to the centre which is why he was in power for ten years and remains the most successful Labour prime minister in the history of the party. However, there will always be an extreme left wing element within Labour, on the periphery perhaps but there all the same, and Starmer knows it. Which is why Starmer is now publicly dissing Corbyn, a man he previously supported and said was the next prime minister of the UK. Starmer is more slippery than an eel. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 7:36:08 GMT
linkCorbyn did better than Blair. It's just a fact. Corbyn did nothing, he couldn't even get elected. the only thing he accomplished was that he got the fewest seats in parliament than any other post war Labour leader, and that took some doing. He's been 'elected' more times than any MP. It did takes some doing, the organised smear campaign which involved the Tories, the Israeli government, the UK media and his own right wing MPS, was horrendous. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 7:43:49 GMT
Thank you. I do not like Starmer, I think he is a slimy chancer much like a Tory I the only way to get rid of the Tories is to vote Labour, I will vote Labour. They have nearly destroyed this country in the last 13 years. A Labour government would have done more or less the same as the Tories, with one or two notable exceptions: A Labour government would: Impose an even higher tax burden than the Tories have (According to the IFS) Locked us down sooner and for longer during covid (Starmer called for this) Be far more subservient to the EU. Welcome even more illegals from the EU. Adopt even more woke minority appeasing politically correct policies. (Dont forget, Starmer doesn't know what a woman is) Increase the foreign aid budget from £11.5 billion to £14 billion. (Lammy 'vowed' a future Labour government would do this) Introduce a 32 hour week while forcing employers to pay employees for a 40 hour week. Introduce more draconian net zero policies that will damage the economy even more. Etc etc et al. 1. Agreed but on the richest members of society and the massive profits of rip off multi nationals. 2. Agreed and saved more lives. 3 Disagree, we had a referendum Labour would have achieved a better deal. We have never bee 'subservient to the EU. 4. Agree, to fill the job vacancies that the Tories are trying to get OPP's and disabled to do, pick fruit....... 5. Disagree, Starmer does know what a woman is he has difficulty, as do many, on trans issues. 6. Agreed, working with other countries is the beat way to stop conflict. 7. Agreed, many companies have tried this, read the news, and it works. 8. Agreed but its not the economy we should be worried about it's the global warming. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 7:44:22 GMT
linkCorbyn did better than Blair. It's just a fact. LOL, like I said, you're a natural. You are making me blush. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 7:45:30 GMT
linkCorbyn did better than Blair. It's just a fact. Link doesnt work mate.
you need to quantify how corbyn did better than blair. In terms of actually winning elections , blair three corbyn nil.
In terms of actual votes , again blair two corbyn nil (1999 beat 2017 , 2001 beat 2019 )
Corbyn wasnt my cup of tea red , but i would have preffered him to blair , and i actually feared him more than blair and his henchmen from a scottish perspective.
....but making up fantasy about corbyn as the glorious failure just wont wash red. A bit like john smith , another non entity labour figure famous for doing nothing except passing away ( sadly of course).
Typical labour. Canonising failure.
I never said winning elections, did you not read the link? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2023 7:46:38 GMT
Which would be the obvious thing he would do, the Labour party no longer need him, they a token or two Lefties who are much more bendable. I think he is probably fairly confident of being re-elected, I mean he has been MP for Islington North since 1983, that's forty years ffs. Personally I think he is mad as a box of frogs, but his constituents clearly like him. Do you know Corbyn because his constituents do. |
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Post by thomas on Mar 29, 2023 7:48:41 GMT
Link doesnt work mate.
you need to quantify how corbyn did better than blair. In terms of actually winning elections , blair three corbyn nil.
In terms of actual votes , again blair two corbyn nil (1999 beat 2017 , 2001 beat 2019 )
Corbyn wasnt my cup of tea red , but i would have preffered him to blair , and i actually feared him more than blair and his henchmen from a scottish perspective.
....but making up fantasy about corbyn as the glorious failure just wont wash red. A bit like john smith , another non entity labour figure famous for doing nothing except passing away ( sadly of course).
Typical labour. Canonising failure.
I never said winning elections, did you not read the link? Did you not read my post ? First sentence? |
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Post by thomas on Mar 29, 2023 7:52:17 GMT
Link doesnt work mate.
you need to quantify how corbyn did better than blair. In terms of actually winning elections , blair three corbyn nil.
In terms of actual votes , again blair two corbyn nil (1999 beat 2017 , 2001 beat 2019 )
Corbyn wasnt my cup of tea red , but i would have preffered him to blair , and i actually feared him more than blair and his henchmen from a scottish perspective.
....but making up fantasy about corbyn as the glorious failure just wont wash red. A bit like john smith , another non entity labour figure famous for doing nothing except passing away ( sadly of course).
Typical labour. Canonising failure.
I never said winning elections, did you not read the link? If you cant post a link that works for me , then at least quantify in your own words how you think corbyn did better than blair. However much i despise blair , i cant see it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 29, 2023 7:57:31 GMT
I never said winning elections, did you not read the link? If you cant post a link that works for me , then at least quantify in your own words how you think corbyn did better than blair. However much i despise blair , i cant see it. He is comparing 2017 with 2005. Jeremy Corbyn has won a larger share of the vote in last night's election than Tony Blair achieved when he took power in 2005.
With 648 of the 650 seats declared, Labour currently sits on just over 40 per cent of the vote, significantly higher than the 35.2 per cent the party managed in 2005.
In his last general election, Mr Blair won a majority with 355 seats, and although Mr Corbyn is currently a long way behind on 261, his share of the popular vote is significantly higher. |
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