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Post by dodgydave on Oct 20, 2022 18:25:55 GMT
The Labour Party in Opposition is always very keen on PR - however that keenness disappears when they win a majority.. 100% correct. If they brought in PR the votes for Libdem, Greens, Reform and Farage would increase. Hell, the SNP might even stand candidates in Wales and N.Ireland. Labour would literally be forcing themselves into a coalition instead of having a massive majority that allowed them to pass reform after reform. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 18:28:08 GMT
The Labour Party in Opposition is always very keen on PR - however that keenness disappears when they win a majority.. No party with a decent majority will ever vote for PR. We almost got PR under the Tory/LibDem coalition, but they fudged the referendum by providing forms of "PR" which were not actually one person one party vote. I ended up voting against that kind of PR because of the fudge. Maybe a hung parliament might bring in true PR. |
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Post by dappy on Oct 20, 2022 18:28:38 GMT
We’ll get to find out soon enough.
I would be surprised if a form of PR is not in place for the 2027/2028 election.
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Post by borchester on Oct 20, 2022 18:31:27 GMT
The Labour Party in Opposition is always very keen on PR - however that keenness disappears when they win a majority.. True
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Post by borchester on Oct 20, 2022 18:36:59 GMT
The best thing to do is to have a general election with the franchise restricted to Brexiters.
It does not really matter who is PM provided the country is not ruled from Brussels
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Post by dodgydave on Oct 20, 2022 18:48:15 GMT
Arguably for the Reform thread but that seems to have morphed into refighting the 2016 referendum. Yes, this is all about Brexit. Both the Tories and Labour want to rejoin the EU by stealth. There were always fault lines in the Tories regarding the EU and - with the help of the BBC and the powerful Left wing establishment they're going to try to push the Brexit MPs out. Boris was the big obstacle but he's gone. Truss is a pushover anyway. Nonsense. They want to rejoin the single market, but they cannot re-join the EU because of Freedom of Movement. Rejoining the single market makes sense, as the public was very much pro-Europe before Maastricht went too far. If you remember, the EU would not let us have a Norway or Canadian style deal... they need to change their stance for everybody's best interest. |
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Post by buccaneer on Oct 20, 2022 20:47:17 GMT
Yes, this is all about Brexit. Both the Tories and Labour want to rejoin the EU by stealth. There were always fault lines in the Tories regarding the EU and - with the help of the BBC and the powerful Left wing establishment they're going to try to push the Brexit MPs out. Boris was the big obstacle but he's gone. Truss is a pushover anyway. Nonsense. They want to rejoin the single market, but they cannot re-join the EU because of Freedom of Movement. Rejoining the single market makes sense, as the public was very much pro-Europe before Maastricht went too far. If you remember, the EU would not let us have a Norway or Canadian style deal... they need to change their stance for everybody's best interest. What are you on about? If you join the Single Market you have to take on ALL for "freedoms"; movement of goods, capital, services and people. |
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Post by dodgydave on Oct 21, 2022 0:49:33 GMT
Nonsense. They want to rejoin the single market, but they cannot re-join the EU because of Freedom of Movement. Rejoining the single market makes sense, as the public was very much pro-Europe before Maastricht went too far. If you remember, the EU would not let us have a Norway or Canadian style deal... they need to change their stance for everybody's best interest. What are you on about? If you join the Single Market you have to take on ALL for "freedoms"; movement of goods, capital, services and people. I mentioned Norway and Canadian to show how the EU bends the rules when it suits them. Freedom of Movement is an obvious red line for the UK, they could make a special arrangement with us. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 21, 2022 6:30:12 GMT
We went through all these arguments several years ago - i.e. ways of getting the "benefits" of EU membership without all the disadvantages and none of them work. As has been said membership of the Single Market comes with a whole lot of other baggage (the 4 freedoms, which include freedom of movement of people) and requires, of course, alignment with all EU rules and submission to the EFTA court (which follows the jurisprudence of the ECJ).
You can't pick and choose which EU rules you want without getting shafted. There are two "off the shelf" deals to be had - EEA and EFTA. The EEA is "EU lite" - basically the EU without membership of the CAP and CFP. Both require freedom of movement and have limited voting rights.
Labour's idea that you can "joint the Single Market" (also proposed by that idiot Tobias Ellwood) is a fantasy. You just end up having to obey most of the EU rules with fewer rights. It's just a con. It sounds a good idea - but only to people who haven't read the small print.
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Post by steppenwolf on Oct 21, 2022 6:44:18 GMT
Boris was a remainer at heart, that's why settled for a crap deal with the EU. No. The reason we got a crap deal is because 75% of MPs are remainers and Parliament tried to stop Brexit happening - even the Speaker tried to prevent Brexit, and of course the BBC campaigned non-stop to prevent Brexit. Boris's task was Herculean and I think he did a great job in the circumstances. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 21, 2022 6:49:36 GMT
Boris was a remainer at heart, that's why settled for a crap deal with the EU. No. The reason we got a crap deal is because 75% of MPs are remainers and Parliament tried to stop Brexit happening - even the Speaker tried to prevent Brexit, and of course the BBC campaigned non-stop to prevent Brexit. Boris's task was Herculean and I think he did a great job in the circumstances. I tend to agree - Johnson got the best deal that Parliament would allow. |
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Post by jaydee on Oct 21, 2022 7:27:49 GMT
Farage would be ok but he has no staying power, he no sooner starts one political party then he quits and goes missing. He would probably have a big gathering if he didn't keep going missing for long periods of time, people want stability, not someone who comes and goes. I like the guy. Tell me something. The subject of the thread is Farage itching to return. What is this Little Englander out and out right wing fascist returning to. He is a seven times loser. Thankfully the sensible element in England saw him for what he was. And both he and Johnston bought and sold England with Russian gangster gold. The result of which are now coming to fruition. What do you like about this fascist creep who aligns himself with far right nut jobs across Europe. Even having din dins with the Grand daughter of Hitler's cronies. I suggest you listen to the first link. Then tell me what you like about this dangerous racist.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyYoL9ngtE&ab_channel=LBCwww.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/09/revealed-detail-of-exclusive-russian-deal-offered-to-arron-banks-in-brexit-run-up |
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 21, 2022 8:43:41 GMT
Farage would be ok but he has no staying power, he no sooner starts one political party then he quits and goes missing. He would probably have a big gathering if he didn't keep going missing for long periods of time, people want stability, not someone who comes and goes. I like the guy. Tell me something. The subject of the thread is Farage itching to return. What is this Little Englander out and out right wing fascist returning to. He is a seven times loser. Thankfully the sensible element in England saw him for what he was. And both he and Johnston bought and sold England with Russian gangster gold. The result of which are now coming to fruition. What do you like about this fascist creep who aligns himself with far right nut jobs across Europe. Even having din dins with the Grand daughter of Hitler's cronies. I suggest you listen to the first link. Then tell me what you like about this dangerous racist.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pyYoL9ngtE&ab_channel=LBCwww.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/09/revealed-detail-of-exclusive-russian-deal-offered-to-arron-banks-in-brexit-run-up Political parties aren't all one size fits all, Farage offers alternatives to the mainstream parties, so what's wrong with that?
Would you like to close people down like Farage?
Free Speech for the chosen few, Farage has every right to run a political party, and the general public have every right to vote for him if he strikes a chord with them.
It seems strange that someone who carries a torch for the SNP leader and her quest for independence, would want to deny the same freedoms to others, or is this how the SNP operate, they want to close any one or anything down if it doesn't conform to their regime. ..... Typical.
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 21, 2022 10:38:59 GMT
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Post by see2 on Oct 21, 2022 11:00:30 GMT
Boris was a remainer at heart, that's why settled for a crap deal with the EU. Which appears to be your opinion, he was one of the main figures that helped Brexit to happen. Incidentally the other main liar or insinuator of lies on Brexit was Farage. It is in my experience, the sort of approach expected from many Right Wingers. |
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