|
Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 17:54:55 GMT
The poll is interesting. Paid for by a company that i’d never heard of, whose directors are a barrister, an academic and a professor, none of whom have other business interests at director level, which seems to have amassed three million quid in ‘donations’, claims charitable status and states it should be exempt from preparing proper accounts. So, if someone cates to yell me who these shysters are, i’ll trll you if i think they have a fair point or are just muckraking andrew is like most remoaners, he just can't let it drop. Brexshiters can't escape the fear of Brexit failure.
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Mar 22, 2023 18:03:13 GMT
andrew is like most remoaners, he just can't let it drop. Brexshiters can't escape the fear of Brexit failure. Haven't you been following the news?
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 18:05:24 GMT
John Major made big changes in Thatcherism the first one that comes to mind was the decreasing levels of unemployment that were reduced to around 1982 levels. NL inherited an improving economy in 1997 but one with a number of serious Thatcherite problems that they addressed and reversed. Thatcher/Conservatives were still using the well used 'boom and bust' economic means of controlling the UK internal economy, Blair ended that IN 1997, his first year in office, by giving control of inflation to the Bank of England. Thatcherism is no longer in control. As for Thatcherite housing policies, in which she did well for a while; "However while Tom Copley talks specifically about council-built accommodation, we should also consider the homes built and managed by housing associations. These 'social landlords' provide affordable housing to those on low incomes, and were responsible for an increasing proportion of social house building from the early 1990s onwards. Between 1997 and 2010, some 350,000 housing association dwellings were built. If we look at both housing association homes and council houses, Labour built more affordable properties in 2009 than the Conservatives did in each year between 1987 and 1990." Laughable rubbish. You cite as evidence for the abandonment of thatcherite policies under Major a fall in unemployment to 1982 levels, which is hardly impressive and is in fact anyway an outcome not a policy. That's all you have. No one but an idiot would try to argue that Major reversed thatcherite economic policies. Which ones? And which ones did New Labour reverse? Yes they might have splashed a bit more money around but they did almost nothing to change the basic economic status quo. The broad tenets of the thatcherite consensus are with us still and have become accepted as integral by the establishment. You yourself are too stupid to see that you yourself have bought into it and are a part of it. As for "affordable" housing, that word is very elastic and open to question, and is often used by types like you as propaganda. Fact is your chosen lot were such solid thatcherites that they built less social housing than Thatcher herself, and shared in the obsession with home ownership as the only thing that mattered, and you continued selling off whatever social housing was left. So you can take your bullshit propaganda and put it where it might have some hope of fooling people. Might I suggest Private Eye, where at least you might serve the useful purpose of providing nonsense for us to laugh at. You started by posting that Thatcherism was still in control, your posts are a joke added to by exposing your ignorance of the Thatcher things she did that were resolved by NL. Now instead of professing to know what happened come back when you have sorted head out.
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Mar 22, 2023 18:08:25 GMT
Brexshiters can't escape the fear of Brexit failure. Haven't you been following the news? Brexit is still a pipe dream and is likely to continue to be for some time to come.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2023 23:47:27 GMT
Laughable rubbish. You cite as evidence for the abandonment of thatcherite policies under Major a fall in unemployment to 1982 levels, which is hardly impressive and is in fact anyway an outcome not a policy. That's all you have. No one but an idiot would try to argue that Major reversed thatcherite economic policies. Which ones? And which ones did New Labour reverse? Yes they might have splashed a bit more money around but they did almost nothing to change the basic economic status quo. The broad tenets of the thatcherite consensus are with us still and have become accepted as integral by the establishment. You yourself are too stupid to see that you yourself have bought into it and are a part of it. As for "affordable" housing, that word is very elastic and open to question, and is often used by types like you as propaganda. Fact is your chosen lot were such solid thatcherites that they built less social housing than Thatcher herself, and shared in the obsession with home ownership as the only thing that mattered, and you continued selling off whatever social housing was left. So you can take your bullshit propaganda and put it where it might have some hope of fooling people. Might I suggest Private Eye, where at least you might serve the useful purpose of providing nonsense for us to laugh at. You started by posting that Thatcherism was still in control, your posts are a joke added to by exposing your ignorance of the Thatcher things she did that were resolved by NL. Now instead of professing to know what happened come back when you have sorted head out. Says the idiot who thinks thatcherism ended in 1990 yet cannot give specific examples of how. Almost everyone accepts the reality that a thatcherite consensus has become established which both New Labour as well as the Tories have bought into. Only you are too stupid to see that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 16:30:35 GMT
Haven't you been following the news? Brexit is still a pipe dream and is likely to continue to be for some time to come. This is largely because it was sold on a tissue of lies, the promised outcome undeliverable, the downsides ignored. We have now hit the brick wall of hard reality, and the search for scapegoats to blame by Brexiteers - anyone but themselves of course - is becoming ever more desperate. Some of them even on this forum are starting to sound like lunatic conspiracy theorists.
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Mar 23, 2023 17:22:54 GMT
You started by posting that Thatcherism was still in control, your posts are a joke added to by exposing your ignorance of the Thatcher things she did that were resolved by NL. Now instead of professing to know what happened come back when you have sorted head out. Says the idiot who thinks thatcherism ended in 1990 yet cannot give specific examples of how. Almost everyone accepts the reality that a thatcherite consensus has become established which both New Labour as well as the Tories have bought into. Only you are too stupid to see that. OK Mr. Big mouth small Brain posts, how about you posting some verifiable facts about your claim? Let's see just how much water they can hold. Here are some facts about Thatcher's mess that NL sorted out. Unemployment peaked at 4million under Thatcher, NL took Unemployment to its lowest since 1980. You have previously acknowledged that NL rescued a NHS that was severely damaged by Thatcher. NL ended the 'Boom and Bust' method, used by Thatcher to control the UK internal economy, accomplished by handing control of inflation to the Bank of England. Still used today. NL ended Thatcher's madness of Grant Maintained Education that saw most state schools starved of funds. NL introduced the Minimum Wage that increased the earnings of many people. Thatcher added over a million children to the count of children living in relative poverty, NL were on the way to relieving that by 1million before the 2008 economic meltdown (IFM). Even after the meltdown there were still fewer children living in relative poverty than in 1997.
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Mar 23, 2023 17:29:51 GMT
andrew is like most remoaners, he just can't let it drop. Brexshiters can't escape the fear of Brexit failure. We have left the EU so it didn’t fail.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 18:32:29 GMT
Says the idiot who thinks thatcherism ended in 1990 yet cannot give specific examples of how. Almost everyone accepts the reality that a thatcherite consensus has become established which both New Labour as well as the Tories have bought into. Only you are too stupid to see that. OK Mr. Big mouth small Brain posts, how about you posting some verifiable facts about your claim? Let's see just how much water they can hold. Here are some facts about Thatcher's mess that NL sorted out. Unemployment peaked at 4million under Thatcher, NL took Unemployment to its lowest since 1980. You have previously acknowledged that NL rescued a NHS that was severely damaged by Thatcher. NL ended the 'Boom and Bust' method, used by Thatcher to control the UK internal economy, accomplished by handing control of inflation to the Bank of England. Still used today. NL ended Thatcher's madness of Grant Maintained Education that saw most state schools starved of funds. NL introduced the Minimum Wage that increased the earnings of many people. Thatcher added over a million children to the count of children living in relative poverty, NL were on the way to relieving that by 1million before the 2008 economic meltdown (IFM). Even after the meltdown there were still fewer children living in relative poverty than in 1997. Most of that was simply throwing more money around and tinkering around the edges in order to preserve the thatcherite status quo by trying to make it a bit nicer and work better And as for New Labour ending boom and bust, I guess the great crash of 2008 was a figment of our imaginations. Or perhaps we did not imagine it but maybe you were in a sorrow-induced coma when it happened following the resignation of Blair, your beloved hero. New Labour ended boom and bust? What utter bollocks. Boom and bust has always been an inherent feature of capitalism and tends to operate globally in cycles. Boom and bust is never going to be ended under the thatcherite consensus, and probably not under a fairer more social democratic system either, though the latter would better protect people from its worst ravages.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2023 18:50:40 GMT
Brexshiters can't escape the fear of Brexit failure. We have left the EU so it didn’t fail. In terms of its advantages versus disadvantages, if the goal is economic prosperity greater than it would have been inside, then it is clearly an utter failure so far.
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Mar 23, 2023 21:25:13 GMT
We have left the EU so it didn’t fail. In terms of its advantages versus disadvantages, if the goal is economic prosperity greater than it would have been inside, then it is clearly an utter failure so far. The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved .
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Mar 23, 2023 21:44:02 GMT
In terms of its advantages versus disadvantages, if the goal is economic prosperity greater than it would have been inside, then it is clearly an utter failure so far. The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved . That was always the goal for most people I know. They tried the arguments from all ways. People did not vote to be poorer etc. It was always subject to the actions of Parliament. Cameron said he would enact what we decided then ran away, leaving a somewhat chaotic situation behind. The point being that we could gain back a level of control but it seems now that International law is being used now to bring us into line and migrants are being directed and bussed to the beaches and being ignored by the Gendarmerie. Controlling it would be so easy if only we were in the EU. It is not paranoid to suggest they are out to get us, the people, and our government is complicit.
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Mar 23, 2023 21:47:38 GMT
The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved . That was always the goal for most people I know. They tried the arguments from all ways. People did not vote to be poorer etc. It was always subject to the actions of Parliament. Cameron said he would enact what we decided then ran away, leaving a somewhat chaotic situation behind. The point being that we could gain back a level of control but it seems now that International law is being used now to bring us into line and migrants are being directed and bussed to the beaches and being ignored by the Gendarmerie. Controlling it would be so easy if only we were in the EU. It is not paranoid to suggest they are out to get us, the people, and our government is complicit. Indeed. The aftermath of Brexit depended on the goodwill of the EU and the ex remainers to respect the decision. I argued that both the EU and the ex remainers would be pragmatic and seek a solution that reflected that. I was wrong .
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Mar 23, 2023 22:13:28 GMT
That was always the goal for most people I know. They tried the arguments from all ways. People did not vote to be poorer etc. It was always subject to the actions of Parliament. Cameron said he would enact what we decided then ran away, leaving a somewhat chaotic situation behind. The point being that we could gain back a level of control but it seems now that International law is being used now to bring us into line and migrants are being directed and bussed to the beaches and being ignored by the Gendarmerie. Controlling it would be so easy if only we were in the EU. It is not paranoid to suggest they are out to get us, the people, and our government is complicit. Indeed. The aftermath of Brexit depended on the goodwill of the EU and the ex remainers to respect the decision. I argued that both the EU and the ex remainers would be pragmatic and seek a solution that reflected that. I was wrong . I always thought that if the EU tried to make it difficult for us to leave then that was an organisation were were well out of. I must admit I did not think that most of our own people would make it it quite so difficult to leave and make a success of that leaving. The ongoing 7 year campaigning has never stopped.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Mar 23, 2023 22:21:59 GMT
We have left the EU so it didn’t fail. In terms of its advantages versus disadvantages, if the goal is economic prosperity greater than it would have been inside, then it is clearly an utter failure so far. Well that is the choice of the Government of the day. The advantage we have being outside of the EU is that we can change the Government. The problem we have is that under the present FPTP system it's a choice between Labour and the Tories and both seem to want exactly the same semi-detached relationship. It would be good to see some real alternatives being offered.
|
|