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Post by dodgydave on Mar 24, 2023 0:31:45 GMT
The EU is an economic Darwinist free for all in which capitalism can relocate to find the cheapest labour and the cheapest taxes. Are you sure you support it SRB? It also was the guarantor of workers' rights. And my very best friend is a Latvian national who wouldn't even have been here were it not for EU freedom of movement. And freedom is a good thing is it not? Especially as it came with our own freedom to go and live, work, or retire in any other EU country we chose. That bad employers exploited some of those EU nationals coming here to force down wages is something that should have been tackled directly rather than citing freedom itself as the problem. How exactly do you stop 5-6 million EU nationals from flooding into the country and creating an oversupply, and therefore a reduction in wages? They are free to work where they want, so they obviously going to flock to France, Germany or the UK because their jobs markets are far bigger than the other EU countries. Especially London, which is the biggest jobs market in Europe by far. It is not "bad employers", it is all employers. An employer cannot be paying way above market rate and hope to survive in business! |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 24, 2023 8:18:57 GMT
It also was the guarantor of workers' rights. And my very best friend is a Latvian national who wouldn't even have been here were it not for EU freedom of movement. And freedom is a good thing is it not? Especially as it came with our own freedom to go and live, work, or retire in any other EU country we chose. That bad employers exploited some of those EU nationals coming here to force down wages is something that should have been tackled directly rather than citing freedom itself as the problem. How exactly do you stop 5-6 million EU nationals from flooding into the country and creating an oversupply, and therefore a reduction in wages? They are free to work where they want, so they obviously going to flock to France, Germany or the UK because their jobs markets are far bigger than the other EU countries. Especially London, which is the biggest jobs market in Europe by far. It is not "bad employers", it is all employers. An employer cannot be paying way above market rate and hope to survive in business!And employers are affected by this regardless of whether they can get employees or not. (is that what you are saying? ) |
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Post by Tinculin on Mar 24, 2023 8:30:09 GMT
Brexit is a turning into a disaster.
Since Brexit there is a 75% chance my local McDonalds no longer has milkshakes and I’m left with a diet soda. I just don’t know how much longer I can survive like this.
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Post by Handyman on Mar 24, 2023 8:34:46 GMT
Brexit is a turning into a disaster. Since Brexit there is a 75% chance my local McDonalds no longer has milkshakes and I’m left with a diet soda. I just don’t know how much longer I can survive like this.  |
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Post by Toreador on Mar 24, 2023 8:38:31 GMT
Brexit is a turning into a disaster. Since Brexit there is a 75% chance my local McDonalds no longer has milkshakes and I’m left with a diet soda. I just don’t know how much longer I can survive like this. I'm down to less than a weeks supply of tinned soup and arrowroot biscuits. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Mar 24, 2023 9:12:17 GMT
It also was the guarantor of workers' rights. And my very best friend is a Latvian national who wouldn't even have been here were it not for EU freedom of movement. And freedom is a good thing is it not? Especially as it came with our own freedom to go and live, work, or retire in any other EU country we chose. That bad employers exploited some of those EU nationals coming here to force down wages is something that should have been tackled directly rather than citing freedom itself as the problem. How exactly do you stop 5-6 million EU nationals from flooding into the country and creating an oversupply, and therefore a reduction in wages? They are free to work where they want, so they obviously going to flock to France, Germany or the UK because their jobs markets are far bigger than the other EU countries. Especially London, which is the biggest jobs market in Europe by far. It is not "bad employers", it is all employers. An employer cannot be paying way above market rate and hope to survive in business! Actually this is dead easy. Just as Schengen was originally a measure that was placed on the statute books to allow residents of Knokke Heist to nip across the dutch border with minimal fuss to get to the shops up the road and to the nice pub just across the border for Sunday Lunch but residents of Oostende had to get a fucking visa just lije the italians, but fucking lawyers ripped the hole open with a pair of virgin pliers so now you can drive a bus through, so the original 1957 Treaty Of Rome as kept in microfiche in the Library of the European Parliament, whose copy i have personally read, in the French language it was written in for the French speaking among the six that signed it, states categorically that ‘freedom of movement shall be restricted to 1) the right for citizens of one EEC country with appropriate qualifications and / or experience to make themselves available to take EMPLOYMENT in the PRIVATE sector in another … 2) SUBJECT TO the ABSOLUTE right of the sovereign government of that other country to regulate numbers or ban entirely the appointment of such people in their country where to allow it would not be in the national interest, ALWAYS remembering that 3) NO PUBLIC SECTOR employer may be allowed to offer jobs to such people nor shall they be allowed to take them AND FURTHERMORE 4) NO person may use this to operate as a SELF EMPLOYED person offering services to individuals or businesses in that other country As with Schengen, lefty fucking lawyers did a virgin pliers number on THIS clause, making it tbe abortion it is now ALL we need do to fix this is deport them and go back to the 1957 Treaty of Rome’s declarations. Simples…. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 11:55:39 GMT
In terms of its advantages versus disadvantages, if the goal is economic prosperity greater than it would have been inside, then it is clearly an utter failure so far. The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved . But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 24, 2023 12:11:13 GMT
The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved . But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. We are a democracy and our democracy is healthier having honoured the vote. I don't understand what you like about the EU. It is undemocratic. It is anarcho capitalism. It produces high unemployment and high demand for housing which in the economic Darwinian market, is becoming ever more expensive and unaffordable to many. What exactly do you like about it? |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 24, 2023 12:12:57 GMT
The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved . But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. But that was always going to be the case no matter how we left. You cannot bind Government or Electorates to a specific policy forever - in a Democracy they will always have the ability to change their mind. In the meantime Brexit has been achieved - just as EU membership had been achieved - until it wasn't. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 24, 2023 12:13:55 GMT
The goal was to leave the EU . The aftermath was subject to speculation. The goal has been achieved . But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. People voted to get out of the clutches of the EUSSR. We new exactly what we were voting for. Fortunately there were not enough Karen morons to vote to stay in the clutches of a frigging dictatorship. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 12:16:01 GMT
In terms of its advantages versus disadvantages, if the goal is economic prosperity greater than it would have been inside, then it is clearly an utter failure so far. Well that is the choice of the Government of the day. The advantage we have being outside of the EU is that we can change the Government. The problem we have is that under the present FPTP system it's a choice between Labour and the Tories and both seem to want exactly the same semi-detached relationship. It would be good to see some real alternatives being offered. I agree that for us to be a truly democratic country we need real alternatives on offer on a large range of issues. We are never going to get that under FPTP. Neither Labour nor the Tories offer anything radically different from what we already have and a vote for anyone else where I live is a waste of time beyond registering a mere protest. So most who want to register a protest prefer to do so by not participating at all. Huge swathes of opinion out there are being effectively frozen out of meaningful representation. This includes both democratic socialists and social democrats. It includes devout and pure thatcherites, and English nationalists. It includes those who feel strongly about so called woke issues and it includes solidly pro-Europeans. It includes greens and environmentalists and it includes small staters. Both to the left and the right of the establishmentarian duopoly broad swathes of opinion are almost entirely unrepresented. This is insupportable if we want to be a society that values and has faith in democracy. I want to have the choice of voting for something or someone I support, knowing that my vote and those of others on the same page as me will count. Your politics are different from mine but you too ought to have the choice of voting for something or someone you support knowing that your vote will count. FPTP forces people to vote for for a party they do not support to keep the other one out in any kind of attempt to make their vote count under a system that guarantees most votes wont. But voting either Labour or Conservative just to keep the other one out becomes itself meaningless and pointless when neither is offering much of an alternative from each other. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 12:31:22 GMT
But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. We are a democracy and our democracy is healthier having honoured the vote. I don't understand what you like about the EU. It is undemocratic. It is anarcho capitalism. It produces high unemployment and high demand for housing which in the economic Darwinian market, is becoming ever more expensive and unaffordable to many. What exactly do you like about it? The freedom to live, work, or retire in any EU nation we choose, which we have now surrendered., and the social and working protections the EU guaranteed. We also had a voice at the table and a veto on much we did not agree with. We cannot veto anything the EU decides now no matter how much it might negatively affect us. As for extortionate housing and rental costs, that is a home grown problem largely due to an insufficient supply of the most needed types of new housing and our very own buy to let scam. Neither rents nor house prices have substantially fallen as a consequence of leaving the EU. Indeed rents continue to rocket whilst any dampening of house prices has far more to do with interest rate rises than with the EU. I have also noticed in my work that food items imported from Europe have seen the biggest rise in prices due to the increased costs resulting from Brexit. European products are also the ones we most often have supply issues with. Brexit is contributing to serious food price inflation. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 24, 2023 12:38:32 GMT
Wrong, France and other western EU countries have the same problems.
You can still retire in an EU country if you have the money to get a visa.
You can still live and work in an EU country if you have a CV and are worth employing.
You're missing the bigger picture for ideological reasons.
The EU doesn't work.
It needs fiscal union for things like freedom of movement and the Euro to work.
It needs a unified tax system and a welfare state.
What it's got is a capitalist market with scant regards to the problems involved i.e. the exodus towards cheap labour and cheap taxes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2023 12:41:52 GMT
But can you really not see that the reason many voted for it is that they were persuaded we would be better off outside. If the opposite appears to be true as it does at the moment, more and more people will regret the decision to leave and turn on those who sold the idea to them. So it matters politically, and could eventually result in a head of steam building up for a closer association with the EU again. So the goal has not been achieved in a way that works for us. People voted to get out of the clutches of the EUSSR. We new exactly what we were voting for. Fortunately there were not enough Karen morons to vote to stay in the clutches of a frigging dictatorship. We certainly have a problem with too many idiots believing crap like that. The EU is not a dictatorship. Most of it's members have democratic systems that are more democratic than ours, and elected governments enjoy veto powers. And to try and insinuate that the EU is remotely similar to the USSR as you stupidly do is utterly ridiculous. It is a free market system for one thing encouraging trade and fair competition, not an anti-capitalist monolith. Nor does it send in the tanks when anyone wants to break away, nor does it prevent it's own citizens from leaving with walls, barbed wire, and machine guns. In posting such shite as the comments above you merely make yourself look rabidly delusional, as if you are speaking of an alternate reality that does not actually exist. This marks you down as something of an extremist, evidenced by your rabid language. |
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Post by jonksy on Mar 24, 2023 12:52:28 GMT
People voted to get out of the clutches of the EUSSR. We new exactly what we were voting for. Fortunately there were not enough Karen morons to vote to stay in the clutches of a frigging dictatorship. We certainly have a problem with too many idiots believing crap like that. The EU is not a dictatorship. Most of it's members have democratic systems that are more democratic than ours, and elected governments enjoy veto powers. And to try and insinuate that the EU is remotely similar to the USSR as you stupidly do is utterly ridiculous. It is a free market system for one thing encouraging trade and fair competition, not an anti-capitalist monolith. Nor does it send in the tanks when anyone wants to break away, nor does it prevent it's own citizens from leaving with walls, barbed wire, and machine guns. In posting such shite as the comments above you merely make yourself look rabidly delusional, as if you are speaking of an alternate reality that does not actually exist. This marks you down as something of an extremist, evidenced by your rabid language. I see you and your ilk steered well clear on the thread that I started telling you that th EUSSR are now stifling free speach...But what more can we expect from those who cannon't even manage to tie their own shoelaces whithout a directive from the Dictators based in Brussels. |
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