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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2023 18:52:05 GMT
The EU is attempting to become an empire so the UK had to be treated harshly to deter the others from wanting to break away. The EU treated the UK as a third country. Once we voted to leave, they had to protect their own interests and we had to protect ours. It's not their fault that (a) we sent useless negotiators, (b) we had a sneaky PM and (c) we had a "complicated situation" in Northern Ireland. So the best thing to do is clean up our own backyard. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2023 10:51:19 GMT
The Sunakian Concept -- a progressive approach to Brexit: 'I’m a Brexiteer but it is better to work with the EU than fight them.'
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 9, 2023 7:18:56 GMT
The EU is attempting to become an empire so the UK had to be treated harshly to deter the others from wanting to break away. Oh do stop the dusty old tropes. No one mentions Brexit in Europe anymore. Europe just gets on with its own business...more successful than that in struggling UK. One day it will become apparent that the world does not need the UK.It is nice to have but is not necessary. Nothing in the UK is unique and can all be done elsewhere. The UK voted to be a third country. Now it has to learn how to live like one. Any benefits like inclusion in Horizon will have to be paid for. Next if the UK wants to be included in Copernicus, it will have to pay for that too. And work under EU control. Pretty soon the UK will be paying as much into the EU as it boasted it could save just to buy back what it voted to trash. And will still have to comply with EU trading standards and procedures. If this is sovereignty, you are a leprechaun. |
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 9, 2023 12:37:04 GMT
The EU is attempting to become an empire so the UK had to be treated harshly to deter the others from wanting to break away. Oh do stop the dusty old tropes. No one mentions Brexit in Europe anymore. Europe just gets on with its own business...more successful than that in struggling UK. One day it will become apparent that the world does not need the UK.It is nice to have but is not necessary. Nothing in the UK is unique and can all be done elsewhere. The UK voted to be a third country. Now it has to learn how to live like one. Any benefits like inclusion in Horizon will have to be paid for. Next if the UK wants to be included in Copernicus, it will have to pay for that too. And work under EU control. Pretty soon the UK will be paying as much into the EU as it boasted it could save just to buy back what it voted to trash. And will still have to comply with EU trading standards and procedures. If this is sovereignty, you are a leprechaun. By the same token the EU certainly is not needed. It currently has a war on its doorstep, which is in keeping with Europe's habit of history. Nothing in the EU is unique and can be sourced, produced, and manufactured elsewhere. And if the UK choose to join and pay into schemes that's in its interest then it will do so, but its chosen not to be a part of the EU's imperialism anymore and we now aren't slaves to reckless policies like the CAP that compelled us to buy agri-food at higher costs than can be bought elsewhere, or having the pseudo entitlement of "European citizens" rocking up on our doorstep and entering a nation because they can. What you currently describe as the struggles with Brexit Britain is in actual fact the very essence of taking back control - this is what sovereign nations do, and have done for years. There was no collapse in the UK's economy after leaving the SM and CU like many had hoped and predicted. It clearly demonstrated the EU wasn't necessary, nor were the technocrats who consistently handed down directives in overbearing and bureaucratic amounts. BTW Germany is struggling and has struggled more economically than Britain since 2016, and even though you claim nobody mentions Brexit anymore in Europe you personally seem good at bucking that trend. |
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Post by bancroft on Mar 9, 2023 12:42:38 GMT
The EU is attempting to become an empire so the UK had to be treated harshly to deter the others from wanting to break away. Oh do stop the dusty old tropes. No one mentions Brexit in Europe anymore. Europe just gets on with its own business...more successful than that in struggling UK. One day it will become apparent that the world does not need the UK.It is nice to have but is not necessary. Nothing in the UK is unique and can all be done elsewhere. The UK voted to be a third country. Now it has to learn how to live like one. Any benefits like inclusion in Horizon will have to be paid for. Next if the UK wants to be included in Copernicus, it will have to pay for that too. And work under EU control. Pretty soon the UK will be paying as much into the EU as it boasted it could save just to buy back what it voted to trash. And will still have to comply with EU trading standards and procedures. If this is sovereignty, you are a leprechaun. I don't think so just a democrat and can see things for what they are. It will be interesting to see how countries react when the WEF demands over nitrogen use in food gets to the bigger nations in the EU. Our population is so dense as we have been welcoming for so long and because we want to slow this down we get silly names thrown at us. Look forward to hear how the Euro army is kicking ass in Europe further down the line .............  |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 9, 2023 12:53:37 GMT
The EU is attempting to become an empire so the UK had to be treated harshly to deter the others from wanting to break away. Oh do stop the dusty old tropes. No one mentions Brexit in Europe anymore. Europe just gets on with its own business... more successful than that in struggling UK.Really? The latest data released by the EU yesterday shows that Q4 GDP growth revised down to zero in the Eurozone (same as the UK), and to -0.1% in the EU as a whole. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 9, 2023 14:10:54 GMT
I am not talking about 3 months worth of growth.
I am talking about health systems, education including costs of childcare, dealing with asylum claims, the conduct and subsequent respect for the police, local amenities, standards of water and social housing . Etc.
I dont know where all the tax money fron one of the highest taxed countries in Europe goes. Clearly some has gone into the pockets of fraudsters during Covid but other countries had the same demands and are still growing at a faster rate.
When the world is going through one of the most important changes in history, droppung general use of fossil fuels and looking for alternative sources of energy
with serious money being invested across the world by both state and private investnents, the UK is still bitching about Brexit! Very few invesors want to put lots of money into a country that makes cooperative research and development far more difficult than elsewhere.
The days of individual national progress are over. Projects are too big for one country. No single country could create Copernicus but with communal developmwnt, 27 countries can enjoy it.
The hymnsheet of Leavers was all about standing alone, being followed by others,ideas of echoes of WW2 and even further back, jam tomorrow, make believe futures. Meanwhile the world had changed.
The future is not standing alonw. It is about working together to make sure western liberal democracies still exist.
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Post by bancroft on Mar 9, 2023 14:35:00 GMT
Liberal democracies mmmmm, people felt the Liberal was being taken advantage of and we were called racists and xenophobes for it.
We have BRINO not Brexit so the process still continues though COV-ID certainly put a dent in it and the Scots independence referendum is still hanging over the UK since 2014.
The EU is pushing the European and possibly also US transnational policies and UN so some can sell more and others can forward their agendas covertly.
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Post by Toreador on Mar 9, 2023 15:27:14 GMT
I am not talking about 3 months worth of growth. I am talking about health systems, education including costs of childcare, dealing with asylum claims, the conduct and subsequent respect for the police, local amenities, standards of water and social housing . Etc. I dont know where all the tax money fron one of the highest taxed countries in Europe goes. Clearly some has gone into the pockets of fraudsters during Covid but other countries had the same demands and are still growing at a faster rate. When the world is going through one of the most important changes in history, droppung general use of fossil fuels and looking for alternative sources of energy with serious money being invested across the world by both state and private investnents, the UK is still bitching about Brexit! Very few invesors want to put lots of money into a country that makes cooperative research and development far more difficult than elsewhere. The days of individual national progress are over. Projects are too big for one country. No single country could create Copernicus but with communal developmwnt, 27 countries can enjoy it. The hymnsheet of Leavers was all about standing alone, being followed by others,ideas of echoes of WW2 and even further back, jam tomorrow, make believe futures. Meanwhile the world had changed. The future is not standing alonw. It is about working together to make sure western liberal democracies still exist. So write to someone who can change things, you are not succeeding on here. |
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Post by Bentley on Mar 9, 2023 17:31:12 GMT
I am not talking about 3 months worth of growth. I am talking about health systems, education including costs of childcare, dealing with asylum claims, the conduct and subsequent respect for the police, local amenities, standards of water and social housing . Etc. I dont know where all the tax money fron one of the highest taxed countries in Europe goes. Clearly some has gone into the pockets of fraudsters during Covid but other countries had the same demands and are still growing at a faster rate. When the world is going through one of the most important changes in history, droppung general use of fossil fuels and looking for alternative sources of energy with serious money being invested across the world by both state and private investnents, the UK is still bitching about Brexit! Very few invesors want to put lots of money into a country that makes cooperative research and development far more difficult than elsewhere. The days of individual national progress are over. Projects are too big for one country. No single country could create Copernicus but with communal developmwnt, 27 countries can enjoy it. The hymnsheet of Leavers was all about standing alone, being followed by others,ideas of echoes of WW2 and even further back, jam tomorrow, make believe futures. Meanwhile the world had changed. The future is not standing alonw. It is about working together to make sure western liberal democracies still exist. I thought it was the ex remainers bitching about Brexit . |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 9, 2023 18:18:32 GMT
I am not talking about 3 months worth of growth. I am talking about health systems, education including costs of childcare, dealing with asylum claims, the conduct and subsequent respect for the police, local amenities, standards of water and social housing . Etc. I dont know where all the tax money fron one of the highest taxed countries in Europe goes.
Now there is something I totally agree with you on - I suspect its overgenerous welfare payments and the ever bottomless pit that is the NHS. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 9, 2023 19:03:21 GMT
Liberal democracies mmmmm, people felt the Liberal was being taken advantage of and we were called racists and xenophobes for it. We have BRINO not Brexit so the process still continues though COV-ID certainly put a dent in it and the Scots independence referendum is still hanging over the UK since 2014. The EU is pushing the European and possibly also US transnational policies and UN so some can sell more and others can forward their agendas covertly. The only way poor people in poor countries will enjoy a better life is through trade. The US and the EU are such huge markets that they can generate wealth by being a huge market for that trade. Trade has been the vehicle for national wealth and standards of living since the Silk Road created the Renaissance. It created Britain's wealth through exploration and navigation because the UK was a trading nation. So perhaps before you naysay trade just to be thoughtlessly contrary as if you have a better idea, you'd better think it through again. |
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Post by bancroft on Mar 9, 2023 19:39:17 GMT
Liberal democracies mmmmm, people felt the Liberal was being taken advantage of and we were called racists and xenophobes for it. We have BRINO not Brexit so the process still continues though COV-ID certainly put a dent in it and the Scots independence referendum is still hanging over the UK since 2014. The EU is pushing the European and possibly also US transnational policies and UN so some can sell more and others can forward their agendas covertly. The only way poor people in poor countries will enjoy a better life is through trade. The US and the EU are such huge markets that they can generate wealth by being a huge market for that trade. Trade has been the vehicle for national wealth and standards of living since the Silk Road created the Renaissance. It created Britain's wealth through exploration and navigation because the UK was a trading nation. So perhaps before you naysay trade just to be thoughtlessly contrary as if you have a better idea, you'd better think it through again. We do not need to trade with the EU, though it would be nice. We do not need to be held hostage either plenty of other countries to trade with. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 10, 2023 8:37:16 GMT
Yes. In 6 years the UK has found three new countries to trade with on its own terms.
If you wish to toss out established trade with around 80 countries and spend years renegotiating existing EU agreements that the UK uses, go ahead.
It will take longer than I have years left.
If the EU were not so generous, it should have cut the UK out of all the deals it made in the name of the EU and which some in the UK have turned up their noses. In fact now the UK has left, it has no moral right to any of those deals.
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 10, 2023 8:52:30 GMT
Yes. In 6 years the UK has found three new countries to trade with on its own terms. If you wish to toss out established trade with around 80 countries and spend years renegotiating existing EU agreements that the UK uses, go ahead. It will take longer than I have years left. If the EU were not so generous, it should have cut the UK out of all the deals it made in the name of the EU and which some in the UK have turned up their noses. In fact now the UK has left, it has no moral right to any of those deals.The UK is paying for assets and liabilities towards the EU. It has EVERY moral right ffs. |
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