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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 9, 2023 2:16:16 GMT
The EU is the De Facto law maker when it comes to economic and trade rules and regulations in all of Europe. Not only in the EU, but also in the wider European Economic Area, where the EU rules apply Also outside of the EEA too - in Switzerland where many EU regulations apply, also in those countries with Association Agreements, such as Turkey and all of the Balkan countries not currently part of the EU. Three former Soviet Republics have "Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreements", Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia. EU regulations are applied to one degree or another in virtually every European nation So why do many politicians in this country think that we can do business in Europe and avoid EU regulations Why cannot we just accept that in order to make life easier, simpler and less complicated,it would be in everyones best interests if we aligned our economic and trade regulations with the rest of Europe. The Conservative Party are basically cutting off their nose to spite their face, its childish, and its doing a lot of harm to British business and British industry and British jobs. Pillock. Anyone who thinks the EU make economic and trade laws for the whole of Europe, left school far too soon. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Mar 9, 2023 4:45:55 GMT
The EU is the De Facto law maker when it comes to economic and trade rules and regulations in all of Europe. Not only in the EU, but also in the wider European Economic Area, where the EU rules apply Also outside of the EEA too - in Switzerland where many EU regulations apply, also in those countries with Association Agreements, such as Turkey and all of the Balkan countries not currently part of the EU. Three former Soviet Republics have "Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreements", Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia. EU regulations are applied to one degree or another in virtually every European nation So why do many politicians in this country think that we can do business in Europe and avoid EU regulations Why cannot we just accept that in order to make life easier, simpler and less complicated,it would be in everyones best interests if we aligned our economic and trade regulations with the rest of Europe. The Conservative Party are basically cutting off their nose to spite their face, its childish, and its doing a lot of harm to British business and British industry and British jobs. Pillock. Anyone who thinks the EU make economic and trade laws for the whole of Europe, left school far too soon. Anyone who thinks that's what Sid said has comprehension difficulties. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 9, 2023 5:07:07 GMT
Pillock. Anyone who thinks the EU make economic and trade laws for the whole of Europe, left school far too soon. Anyone who thinks that's what Sid said has comprehension difficulties. Monte, that is precicely what he said. Anyone who doesn't understand is a screaming €urophile, or doesn't understand English. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 9, 2023 7:00:48 GMT
It is quite simple.
If you want to trade with countries within the EU and with the 80 or so countries where the EU and by default, the UK has trade agreements, the UK has to comply with the terms and conditions of those agreements.
Course the UK could always stop trading with the EU and most of the rest of the world. Then it would be truly sovereign.
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Post by thomas on Mar 9, 2023 7:28:14 GMT
Well you are not laughing much - all you do all day is come on here bitching about it.. Come on Tam fess up, that's not what the average unbiased spectator would call an entirely inaccurate assessment, is it. Come on red. Brexit you must admit hasnt exactly gone according to plan has it? I know the tories are fucking useless , in general , and they have had the luck of covid and war in ukraine to hide behind , but the excuses are starting to wear thin as we can see from regular polling on what people think regarding leaving the eu.
You are lucky if there has been one or two polls in the last 3 years that have backed brexit , with all the rest against.
Theres nothing wrong with being proud of your country , and its history. England is a fine country , with many fine people , but there comes a point where you have to accept modern reality rather than harking back to agincourt.
If not for yourselves , for your children and grandchildren. Brexit could have worked without the crazy red lines , and some pragmatic acceptance of Englands place in the modern world , but now its just hardcore right wing fantasists and an out of control tory party clinging to the last days of power that are leading the vanguard of whats left of the eurosceptic movement.
Eventually , one way or the other mate , reality is going to come crashing in.
You are now in the position politically where starmer , probably the worst labour leader of my lifetime , and i mind michael foot , is about to win a landslide not off the back of being politically astute , but because the public are sick to death of this lame zombie government pretending to govern and making a cunt of brexit at every stage.
Hence all the wind ups on forums like this , and the fringe kipper nutters getting all upset when truth is being spoken. Truth is a terrible thing for some people.
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Post by thomas on Mar 9, 2023 7:31:59 GMT
It is quite simple. If you want to trade with countries within the EU and with the 80 or so countries where the EU and by default, the UK has trade agreements, the UK has to comply with the terms and conditions of those agreements. Course the UK could always stop trading with the EU and most of the rest of the world. Then it would be truly sovereign. well said oracle. Been simple from day one ,but the brexiter fantasists have never accepted , the closer you are to the eu and single market , the more rules you take on board , the further away you are the less.
Its groundhog day.
Deep in the background , its always been about "british exceptionalism" , and that simply isnt happening. All the pros of the single market , but non of the cons.
round and round we go , over and over the same old things while brexiters stand with their fingers in their ears screaming la la la not listening.
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 9, 2023 7:32:01 GMT
It is quite simple. If you want to trade with countries within the EU and with the 80 or so countries where the EU and by default, the UK has trade agreements, the UK has to comply with the terms and conditions of those agreements.
Course the UK could always stop trading with the EU and most of the rest of the world. Then it would be truly sovereign. nobody is arguing otherwise - the point is why do businesses that do not trade with the EU have to follow EU rules.. |
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Post by buccaneer on Mar 9, 2023 7:43:35 GMT
It is quite simple. If you want to trade with countries within the EU and with the 80 or so countries where the EU and by default, the UK has trade agreements, the UK has to comply with the terms and conditions of those agreements.
Course the UK could always stop trading with the EU and most of the rest of the world. Then it would be truly sovereign. nobody is arguing otherwise - the point is why do businesses that do not trade with the EU have to follow EU rules.. Because people believe in EU regulatory imperialism. Forgetting that the EU's golden age of trade deals is well over as it has tried to expand its regulatory imperialism across the world, and other trade blocs have gone, fark that! It's left bullying nations like Switzerland and the UK in its own back yard demanding they yield to their regulatory stagnancy. It doesn't like competition. It likes to reduce it along with entrepreneurship and look after French farmers and German manufacturers. The arrogance of the EU is startling, not even the US believes its own superiority demands other countries to follow its regulations or equivalent conditions. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 9, 2023 11:02:07 GMT
It is quite simple. If you want to trade with countries within the EU and with the 80 or so countries where the EU and by default, the UK has trade agreements, the UK has to comply with the terms and conditions of those agreements.
Course the UK could always stop trading with the EU and most of the rest of the world. Then it would be truly sovereign. nobody is arguing otherwise - the point is why do businesses that do not trade with the EU have to follow EU rules.. Why do people who trade with the UK have to follow UK rules? Because the rules are there to protect and enhance the quality of life of the people who live behind the rules. Businesses which operate out of countries which have signed a trade agreement with the EU have to obey the law. The EU has standards which must be met in order to protect the people who work, play and consume things from outside the EU. Including the UK. There are safety standards, agricultural standards packaging standards, human rights standards, water cleanliness standardards. Etc etc. And why not? The EU doesnt want unsafe toys or maggoty meat or pasta made with wallpaper paste. If a third country tries to pass off such stuff the EU can refuse to trade with them. And fine them. A lot. Because trade agreements are international law. No country, unless it remains completely isolated, is purely sovereign. Every decision made is part of an interwoven global trading network. It has been reality at least since WW2. Before that anyone could import plants and animals carrying god knows what diseases. Could supply nylon and sell it as silk. I should think the UK wants the same protections, because if it do3snt the quality of life will diminish and the pockets of fraudsters will swell. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 11:32:23 GMT
Pacifico ... "I think you lost this argument 7 years ago.
In fact I'll give you an example of why I don't think its in our interest to align with the EU.
The EU has just brought in new financial regulations that mean that all investment products must have a KID (Key Information Document).
I have for years traded US ETF's and CEF's but now, suddenly, I am banned from such products as they don't have a KID. I can still buy the individual company shares that are in the funds but not the funds themselves.
Given that one of the reasons for buying funds instead of individual shares is to spread the risk, we now have an EU rule that makes investing more volatile for the private investor.
I had hoped that leaving the EU would have allowed us to regulate better but it appears not"
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You are not facing reality - It is Brexiteers who have resoundingly, and well and truly lost the argument, they said Brexit would be simple, we would just carry on trading and doing business as though nothing had ever happened, seemless, an "oven ready deal ready to go".
Doing business now, today, with our biggest market is more difficult, more complicated, with more rules, regulations, paperwork, red tape, checks and more checks.
MORE PROBLEMS TO COME
Once we begin to diverge our regulations, the rest of Europe will look at what we are doing, and they could very easily say "You Cant Do That" meaning that if our regulations do not comply to THEIR standards, we cannot sell them in Europe, and that includes the EEA, it includes Ukraine, and it includes countries not in the EU.
Sorry, but the Brexit camp dont seem to understand the situation we are now in, we are basically a "loner", we are that partially isolated trading nation in the corner of Europe, and we are susceptible to the rulings of the European Union, and that is a basic and undeniable fact.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2023 11:39:17 GMT
Vinny ... "Switzerland voted to leave the EEA agreement in 1992"
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Yes ... But the Swiss still accept and implement many EU rules and regulations because its in their interests to do so, most of the alignment between the EU and Switzerland is done by bilateral agreement and treaty.
Switzerland is as good as part of the wider European Economic Area, as is virtually all of Europe
aligning rules and regulations just makes doing business much easier, and I fail 100% to understand why people cannot "Get It".
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 9, 2023 12:46:03 GMT
nobody is arguing otherwise - the point is why do businesses that do not trade with the EU have to follow EU rules.. Why do people who trade with the UK have to follow UK rules? Because the rules are there to protect and enhance the quality of life of the people who live behind the rules. Businesses which operate out of countries which have signed a trade agreement with the EU have to obey the law. The EU has standards which must be met in order to protect the people who work, play and consume things from outside the EU. Including the UK. There are safety standards, agricultural standards packaging standards, human rights standards, water cleanliness standardards. Etc etc. And why not? The EU doesnt want unsafe toys or maggoty meat or pasta made with wallpaper paste. If a third country tries to pass off such stuff the EU can refuse to trade with them. And fine them. A lot. Because trade agreements are international law. I'm not talking about trading with the EU - I'm talking about the vast majority of companies in the UK have never traded with the EU. If you dont sell anything into the EU market why follow their rules? |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 9, 2023 12:50:16 GMT
You are not facing reality - It is Brexiteers who have resoundingly, and well and truly lost the argument, Sid - I hate to break it to you be we have left. But I dont want to sell to the EU - I simply want to go on buying US financial products as I have for years. If the UK chooses not to implement the EU's new financial sector regulations for UK citizens then it has precisely zero effect on the EU. |
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Post by oracle75 on Mar 9, 2023 13:41:49 GMT
Why do people who trade with the UK have to follow UK rules? Because the rules are there to protect and enhance the quality of life of the people who live behind the rules. Businesses which operate out of countries which have signed a trade agreement with the EU have to obey the law. The EU has standards which must be met in order to protect the people who work, play and consume things from outside the EU. Including the UK. There are safety standards, agricultural standards packaging standards, human rights standards, water cleanliness standardards. Etc etc. And why not? The EU doesnt want unsafe toys or maggoty meat or pasta made with wallpaper paste. If a third country tries to pass off such stuff the EU can refuse to trade with them. And fine them. A lot. Because trade agreements are international law. I'm not talking about trading with the EU - I'm talking about the vast majority of companies in the UK have never traded with the EU. If you dont sell anything into the EU market why follow their rules? UK Companies will always have traded under EU rules whether with the core 27 or under the EU trade agreements. While in the EU the UK could not make its own trade deals for obvious reasons. If it did, thrre is a large possibility that goods and services which do not comply with EU standards would enter the single market and damage EU globally accepted standards. |
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Post by Vinny on Mar 9, 2023 14:07:57 GMT
Sid, the EU in 2000 was 54% of our exports, our biggest market.
But by 2016 it was 43% of our exports and falling.
Had we stayed, with a strong pound, our trade with it would have continued to decline and at some point, it makes no sense to pay £9bn a year membership to be in a customs union which is a declining market.
At what point would you have conceded this and voted leave?
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