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Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2023 15:38:41 GMT
Scotland has right to hold indyref2 without Westminster, experts argue
SCOTLAND does have the right to hold a referendum without the agreement of Westminster under a “people power” concept established at the time of the French Revolution, according to legal experts.
Academics at Cambridge University have argued holding a de facto referendum or wildcat vote are both in theory valid pathways to independence as Scots have “constituent power”.
But they have also warned either of these routes would be strewn with “political obstacles” and so reaching a “divorce agreement” with the UK Government is ultimately the only proper path to independence.
Dr Raffael Fasel and Dr Shona Wilson Stark examined the issue of alternative routes to an independence referendum following the Supreme Court ruling that approval from Westminster is required.
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Post by om15 on Feb 12, 2023 15:52:08 GMT
The Supreme Court is rather a more legal and constitutional source than a few unknown leftie "experts" urging people power, but if believing this bilge helps you get through the day than crack on.
None of this rubbish in any way addresses the fact that the (increasing) majority of Scots wish to remain in the Union. We see that the Muslim community no longer back Sturgeon and the SNP, it is slipping away, but no doubt "experts" will refute that quoting previously unheard of "facts" from the 13th century.
Be careful that you don't turn in Jaydee in your disappointment and desperation.
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Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2023 16:00:50 GMT
The Supreme Court is rather a more legal and constitutional source than a few unknown leftie "experts" urging people power, but if believing this bilge helps you get through the day than crack on. None of this rubbish in any way addresses the fact that the (increasing) majority of Scots wish to remain in the Union. We see that the Muslim community no longer back Sturgeon and the SNP, it is slipping away, but no doubt "experts" will refute that quoting previously unheard of "facts" from the 13th century. Be careful that you don't turn in Jaydee in your disappointment and desperation. Its merely an opinion om. Please dont start having a vinny style tantrum just because someone somewhere has voiced opinions contrary to what you believe.
The supreme court is a tony blair creation that should not have any power over scotland. Scotland is not and never has been subject to any english law.
I think though the subject of refernedums has moved on largely , outside of a few hopefulls in the snp.
unionism bedrock in scotland is the over 60`s om. Now surely even your good self can see the ticking demographic timebomb for this mythical unionist majority you keep waffling on about.
You needed the help of eu membership to win back in 2014.....without it , i would say soemthing akin to 25 to 30 % of scots are hardcore unionists. Something around three quarters or just under of the scottish popualtion are open to persuasion.
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Post by borchester on Feb 12, 2023 16:01:32 GMT
Scotland has right to hold indyref2 without Westminster, experts argue
SCOTLAND does have the right to hold a referendum without the agreement of Westminster under a “people power” concept established at the time of the French Revolution, according to legal experts.
Academics at Cambridge University have argued holding a de facto referendum or wildcat vote are both in theory valid pathways to independence as Scots have “constituent power”.
But they have also warned either of these routes would be strewn with “political obstacles” and so reaching a “divorce agreement” with the UK Government is ultimately the only proper path to independence.
Dr Raffael Fasel and Dr Shona Wilson Stark examined the issue of alternative routes to an independence referendum following the Supreme Court ruling that approval from Westminster is required.
The referendum has jack shit to do with the experts and everything to do with the wishes of the Scots.
My impression is that they want one, although I suspect that little Nicky is not so keen.
So is the referendum still on for 19th October 2023 or not?
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Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2023 16:12:04 GMT
Scotland has right to hold indyref2 without Westminster, experts argue
SCOTLAND does have the right to hold a referendum without the agreement of Westminster under a “people power” concept established at the time of the French Revolution, according to legal experts.
Academics at Cambridge University have argued holding a de facto referendum or wildcat vote are both in theory valid pathways to independence as Scots have “constituent power”.
But they have also warned either of these routes would be strewn with “political obstacles” and so reaching a “divorce agreement” with the UK Government is ultimately the only proper path to independence.
Dr Raffael Fasel and Dr Shona Wilson Stark examined the issue of alternative routes to an independence referendum following the Supreme Court ruling that approval from Westminster is required.
The referendum has jack shit to do with the experts and everything to do with the wishes of the Scots.
My impression is that they want one, although I suspect that little Nicky is not so keen.
So is the referendum still on for 19th October 2023 or not?
Doesnt look like it borkie.
At the minute , there are calls for sturgeon to dissolve holyrood and use the resultant elections as a defacto indy ref.
Others are arguing we need to wait for the UKGE 24 , and use 50+1 to trigger withdrawing scotland from the union and holding negotiations with westmisnter.
Dont think your tories are going to be in much of a position either way to deal with things borkie. Whats the latest polls....showing them down to 12 seats or soemthng like that? 
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Post by Ripley on Feb 12, 2023 17:33:16 GMT
The Supreme Court is rather a more legal and constitutional source than a few unknown leftie "experts" urging people power, but if believing this bilge helps you get through the day than crack on. None of this rubbish in any way addresses the fact that the (increasing) majority of Scots wish to remain in the Union. We see that the Muslim community no longer back Sturgeon and the SNP, it is slipping away, but no doubt "experts" will refute that quoting previously unheard of "facts" from the 13th century. Be careful that you don't turn in Jaydee in your disappointment and desperation. Without a referendum, how could you possibly know that a majority of Scots want to remain the union and that their numbers are increasing? Do you have a crystal ball or something? |
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Post by borchester on Feb 12, 2023 18:14:15 GMT
The referendum has jack shit to do with the experts and everything to do with the wishes of the Scots.
My impression is that they want one, although I suspect that little Nicky is not so keen.
So is the referendum still on for 19th October 2023 or not?
Doesnt look like it borkie.
At the minute , there are calls for sturgeon to dissolve holyrood and use the resultant elections as a defacto indy ref.
Others are arguing we need to wait for the UKGE 24 , and use 50+1 to trigger withdrawing scotland from the union and holding negotiations with westmisnter.
Dont think your tories are going to be in much of a position either way to deal with things borkie. Whats the latest polls....showing them down to 12 seats or soemthng like that?
Scotlandwise Tommy, the Tory party seems to consist of a part time foot referee and full time remainer, which may well cause morayloon's girlish heart to miss a beat, but holds no appeal for me. As for the English branch, Silly Sunak has packed his cabinet with Brussels Bumboys and from conversations with the yeomen of the shires, I think that 12 seats might be a bit of an over estimate. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 12, 2023 18:14:55 GMT
I'd be interested to hear how the French Revolution has any bearing at all on UK domestic legislation. I can see how it might impinge on current Laws in France but in the UK?...
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Feb 12, 2023 18:19:02 GMT
Academic lawyers.
If we're not careful Whoiney will be along shortly with even more makey-uppey laws.  |
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Post by Vinny on Feb 12, 2023 18:19:11 GMT
Wouldn't be legal, wouldn't be binding.
Would result in the downfall of the SNP tin pot loonies though.
They've already tried it on too many times.
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Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2023 18:22:20 GMT
I'd be interested to hear how the French Revolution has any bearing at all on UK domestic legislation. I can see how it might impinge on current Laws in France but in the UK?... Read the article. It explains the link of people power , which you and i have discussed before , a concept which according to the link was established at the time of the french revolution.
Scots law is based on roman law , and of course roman law is shared in common between scotland and france.
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Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2023 18:22:49 GMT
Wouldn't be legal, wouldn't be binding. Would result in the downfall of the SNP tin pot loonies though. They've already tried it on too many times. under which law wouldnt it be legal vinny . ? |
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Post by thomas on Feb 12, 2023 18:23:56 GMT
Doesnt look like it borkie.
At the minute , there are calls for sturgeon to dissolve holyrood and use the resultant elections as a defacto indy ref.
Others are arguing we need to wait for the UKGE 24 , and use 50+1 to trigger withdrawing scotland from the union and holding negotiations with westmisnter.
Dont think your tories are going to be in much of a position either way to deal with things borkie. Whats the latest polls....showing them down to 12 seats or soemthng like that?
Scotlandwise Tommy, the Tory party seems to consist of a part time foot referee and full time remainer, which may well cause morayloon's girlish heart to miss a beat, but holds no appeal for me. As for the English branch, Silly Sunak has packed his cabinet with Brussels Bumboys and from conversations with the yeomen of the shires, I think that 12 seats might be a bit of an over estimate. i know what you mean borkie.
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Post by Vinny on Feb 12, 2023 18:25:58 GMT
Wouldn't be legal, wouldn't be binding. Would result in the downfall of the SNP tin pot loonies though. They've already tried it on too many times. under which law wouldnt it be legal vinny . British law. It's very simple, the power to call such referendums lies with our government in London. |
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Post by om15 on Feb 12, 2023 18:35:43 GMT
Simply referring to the recent poll that indicates support (in Scotland) has fallen from 50% to 44%. The opinion polls in England (were they to be carried out) may not indicate a drop in support for Scottish Separation. But it is academic, Westminster has said no, and in the event of a Labour Government we have been told that won't change.
It would have been much simpler if the Scots had voted YES when they were given the referendum that they asked for.
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