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Post by Bentley on Feb 11, 2023 17:24:53 GMT
Car ownership will reduce . Not because the government will tell you that you can’t own cars but because they will not be viable . The only reason i can see for cars becoming unviable in the foreseeable future is the government deliberately making them unviable.
I guess I'm questioning the whole dysfunctional, self-harming enterprise and asking when we voted for it. We didn’t directly vote for anything that the government does. I never voted for lockdown, I didn’t vote for my council tax bring raised. I didn’t vote arms going to Ukraine , I didn’t vote for tobacco being hid inside a drawer at the supermarket. There’s lots I didn’t vote for. Do you propose that any significant societal change needs to be agreed by the public? |
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Post by Orac on Feb 11, 2023 17:41:16 GMT
The only reason i can see for cars becoming unviable in the foreseeable future is the government deliberately making them unviable.
I guess I'm questioning the whole dysfunctional, self-harming enterprise and asking when we voted for it. We didn’t directly vote for anything that the government does. I never voted for lockdown, I didn’t vote for my council tax bring raised. I didn’t vote arms going to Ukraine , I didn’t vote for tobacco being hid inside a drawer at the supermarket. There’s lots I didn’t vote for. Do you propose that any significant societal change needs to be agreed by the public? I think we went through this conversational trail before. I think effectively banning an entire tier of technology which supports our entire way of life is a shift the government should consult the people about. The only reason we are drifting into this arena is that you keep equivocating between defending the change and saying it's inevitable. Saying that a berserk and forced policy is needed because of another berserk and forced policy doesn't do much to justify either. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 11, 2023 17:50:54 GMT
We didn’t directly vote for anything that the government does. I never voted for lockdown, I didn’t vote for my council tax bring raised. I didn’t vote arms going to Ukraine , I didn’t vote for tobacco being hid inside a drawer at the supermarket. There’s lots I didn’t vote for. Do you propose that any significant societal change needs to be agreed by the public? I think we went through this conversational trail before. I think effectively banning an entire tier of technology which supports our entire way of life is a shift the government should consult the people about. The only reason we are drifting into this arena is that you keep equivocating between defending the change and saying it's inevitable. Saying that a berserk and forced policy is needed because of another berserk and forced policy doesn't do much to justify either. We have been down this rabbit hole before and the answer is 1 it’s going to happen 2 you and others are adding 2 + 2 and making 200. 3 the change does not ban cars , it reduces their use . 4 the change does not forbid travel, it reduces the use of personal travel in vehicles but not public transport 5 There is more reason to believe public transport will be more accessible rather than less accessible. 6 Governments have been making far reaching social changes since there have been governments. For someone who doesn’t seem to like the answers that I have given , you seem to want to keep reading them . |
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Post by Orac on Feb 11, 2023 18:04:58 GMT
I think we went through this conversational trail before. I think effectively banning an entire tier of technology which supports our entire way of life is a shift the government should consult the people about. The only reason we are drifting into this arena is that you keep equivocating between defending the change and saying it's inevitable. Saying that a berserk and forced policy is needed because of another berserk and forced policy doesn't do much to justify either. We have been down this rabbit hole before and the answer is 1 it’s going to happen 2 you and others are adding 2 + 2 and making 200. 3 the change does not ban cars , it reduces their use . 4 the change does not forbid travel, it reduces the use of personal travel in vehicles but not public transport 5 There is more reason to believe public transport will be more accessible rather than less accessible. 6 Governments have been making far reaching social changes since there have been governments. For someone who doesn’t seem to like the answers that I have given , you seem to want to keep reading them . Yes - you have outlined this before. The point I'm making is that this isn't an argument for it (it's vacuous). You are just telling objectors that their objections don't matter. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 11, 2023 18:06:24 GMT
What Bus ? What Train ? The Council here are literally wanking in expectation of bringing this in. They routinely spout bullshit that nobody needs a car with their bus services which they regularly make free for a month Well they used to say that. They stopped saying it after i enlisted the help of an independent councillor to expose them for the lying shitheads they are Because the fact is i have a curmudgeonly old sods concessionary bus pass. If buses were really the answer i would sell my car because i can use buses free 24/7/365 The problem is of course there are no fucking buses. No bus runs from town to this part of newport after five fifteen pm and has not for ten years. When i had to have an eye examination that required administration of chemicals that meant i could not drive, i gad to walk to the clinic that had been set up in the rugby stadium here. It took me an hour and a half and they had to get a paramedic to look at me on arrival because my lungs gsve out and i hit the deck. I was most grateful for the assistance of our independent councillors group in publicly exposing the utter bullshit spouted by the labour autophobes. And as i said the twat has been kept muzzled since. There are no busses because enough people own cars for them not to be needed. If very few people owned cars in mine and surrounding villages there would be enough passengers for a regular service . In certain places i might concede that. Not here. The bus company, i forgot to mention, is the last remaining in the UK wholly owned by the council. The service past the entrance to this estate is a circular route that goes from the town centre out to the former council estate that housed key workers in Newport’s steelworks then comes up the road through the former council estate that housed workers at Newport Docks and another industrial area. The council housing has long been privatised of course but the residents are largely reliant on buses and food banks. My eldest who lives in the middle of one of those faces four one and a half mile walks a day to and from her second job, and four bus rides to and from her main one. She would use a bus to the second job but none come in time. The only cars in her street all have Romanian plates. The thing is the council spent over one hundred and ten million building a fairly useless retail centre in the town centre which is well over twenty minutes walk from these estates and have done their damndest to block planning consents for aldi and lidl that would put one of their shops in a 15 minute walk radius of every one of those estate residents But who the fuck has time to walk to a fucking shop these days In the 1950s my mother and my future mother in law had all day to start the twin tub, get off to the shops, order the week’s food, then walk home and do the washing, cleaning and then the cooking when the food was delivered because their husbands were out working and bringing in the money to pay all the bills sobthey could stay at home snd do all they did. Who the fuck has time to do that now they must work to pay the bills And how do you do factory work at hime ? |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 11, 2023 18:10:49 GMT
We have been down this rabbit hole before and the answer is 1 it’s going to happen 2 you and others are adding 2 + 2 and making 200. 3 the change does not ban cars , it reduces their use . 4 the change does not forbid travel, it reduces the use of personal travel in vehicles but not public transport 5 There is more reason to believe public transport will be more accessible rather than less accessible. 6 Governments have been making far reaching social changes since there have been governments. For someone who doesn’t seem to like the answers that I have given , you seem to want to keep reading them . Yes - you have outlined this before. The point I'm making is that this isn't an argument for it (it's vacuous). You are just telling objectors that their objections don't matter. It’s not vacuous to point out that changes are inevitable and you and others are not arguing when you deliberately exaggerate the consequences and make false claims . Your objections are vacuous , you want to keep the status quo in car ownership on the grounds of what you have now and making up consequences on what others might lose later . |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 11, 2023 18:19:06 GMT
There are no busses because enough people own cars for them not to be needed. If very few people owned cars in mine and surrounding villages there would be enough passengers for a regular service . In certain places i might concede that. Not here. The bus company, i forgot to mention, is the last remaining in the UK wholly owned by the council. The service past the entrance to this estate is a circular route that goes from the town centre out to the former council estate that housed key workers in Newport’s steelworks then comes up the road through the former council estate that housed workers at Newport Docks and another industrial area. The council housing has long been privatised of course but the residents are largely reliant on buses and food banks. My eldest who lives in the middle of one of those faces four one and a half mile walks a day to and from her second job, and four bus rides to and from her main one. She would use a bus to the second job but none come in time. The only cars in her street all have Romanian plates. The thing is the council spent over one hundred and ten million building a fairly useless retail centre in the town centre which is well over twenty minutes walk from these estates and have done their damndest to block planning consents for aldi and lidl that would put one of their shops in a 15 minute walk radius of every one of those estate residents But who the fuck has time to walk to a fucking shop these days In the 1950s my mother and my future mother in law had all day to start the twin tub, get off to the shops, order the week’s food, then walk home and do the washing, cleaning and then the cooking when the food was delivered because their husbands were out working and bringing in the money to pay all the bills sobthey could stay at home snd do all they did. Who the fuck has time to do that now they must work to pay the bills And how do you do factory work at hime ? John. 20 minute neighbourhoods do not prohibit extra buses and extra routes . There is more chance of more buses , more often. Google Tescos and Amazon . They will deliver your groceries and other necessities. |
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Post by Orac on Feb 11, 2023 18:34:11 GMT
It’s not vacuous to point out that changes are inevitable and you and others are not arguing when you deliberately exaggerate the consequences and make false claims . Your objections are vacuous , you want to keep the status quo in car ownership on the grounds of what you have now and making up consequences on what others might lose later . I want to maintain a status quo if it works and appears to be what people want. I don't see being bored as a valid reason to employ berserk and totalitarian policy to upset a status quo. Btw your first line criticises people for exaggerating and your second line appears to engage in quite a bit of exaggeration / supposition. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Feb 11, 2023 18:34:40 GMT
In certain places i might concede that. Not here. The bus company, i forgot to mention, is the last remaining in the UK wholly owned by the council. The service past the entrance to this estate is a circular route that goes from the town centre out to the former council estate that housed key workers in Newport’s steelworks then comes up the road through the former council estate that housed workers at Newport Docks and another industrial area. The council housing has long been privatised of course but the residents are largely reliant on buses and food banks. My eldest who lives in the middle of one of those faces four one and a half mile walks a day to and from her second job, and four bus rides to and from her main one. She would use a bus to the second job but none come in time. The only cars in her street all have Romanian plates. The thing is the council spent over one hundred and ten million building a fairly useless retail centre in the town centre which is well over twenty minutes walk from these estates and have done their damndest to block planning consents for aldi and lidl that would put one of their shops in a 15 minute walk radius of every one of those estate residents But who the fuck has time to walk to a fucking shop these days In the 1950s my mother and my future mother in law had all day to start the twin tub, get off to the shops, order the week’s food, then walk home and do the washing, cleaning and then the cooking when the food was delivered because their husbands were out working and bringing in the money to pay all the bills sobthey could stay at home snd do all they did. Who the fuck has time to do that now they must work to pay the bills And how do you do factory work at hime ? John. 20 minute neighbourhoods do not prohibit extra buses and extra routes . There is more chance of more buses , more often. Google Tescos and Amazon . They will deliver your groceries and other necessities. And that's another thing. Why should i make jeff fucking bezos tet more billions. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 11, 2023 18:41:21 GMT
It’s not vacuous to point out that changes are inevitable and you and others are not arguing when you deliberately exaggerate the consequences and make false claims . Your objections are vacuous , you want to keep the status quo in car ownership on the grounds of what you have now and making up consequences on what others might lose later . I want to maintain a status quo if it works and appears to be what people want. I don't see being bored as a valid reason to employ berserk and totalitarian policy to upset a status quo. Btw your first line criticises people for exaggerating and your second line appears to engage in quite a bit of exaggeration / supposition. My first line rightly criticises the ones who exaggerate, speculate and make false claims. my second line accurately describes the ones regarding my first line . |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 11, 2023 18:43:03 GMT
John. 20 minute neighbourhoods do not prohibit extra buses and extra routes . There is more chance of more buses , more often. Google Tescos and Amazon . They will deliver your groceries and other necessities. And that's another thing. Why should i make jeff fucking bezos tet more billions. Bessie doesn’t own Tescos and most eBay delivers. |
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Post by sandypine on Feb 11, 2023 22:08:39 GMT
I think we went through this conversational trail before. I think effectively banning an entire tier of technology which supports our entire way of life is a shift the government should consult the people about. The only reason we are drifting into this arena is that you keep equivocating between defending the change and saying it's inevitable. Saying that a berserk and forced policy is needed because of another berserk and forced policy doesn't do much to justify either. We have been down this rabbit hole before and the answer is 1 it’s going to happen 2 you and others are adding 2 + 2 and making 200. 3 the change does not ban cars , it reduces their use . 4 the change does not forbid travel, it reduces the use of personal travel in vehicles but not public transport 5 There is more reason to believe public transport will be more accessible rather than less accessible. 6 Governments have been making far reaching social changes since there have been governments. For someone who doesn’t seem to like the answers that I have given , you seem to want to keep reading them . 1 It does not have to 2 We are adding 2 + 2 and can see it is not making 4 as it should. 3 The banning of cars is already proposed in term of fossil fuel cars. Electric cars will become inordinately expensive. 4 Public transport can only be available when it is provided. If it is not provided effectively then travel will be limited. 5 Empty public transport will not save the planet, full public transport with strap hangers may just about which of course is what we all want, or perhaps not. Been there done it. 6 Governments have indeed been responsible for far reaching social changes, mostly presented in election manifestos like NHS, Nationalisation, de-Nationalisation etc. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2023 10:41:07 GMT
The motor car is probably mankind's most liberating and democratic invention. So it goes without saying that The Hierarchy Exploiting You wants to stop them being used by all except themselves........Nobody uses these parklets apart from a few drunks late at night. So lovely for the locals to have to clear the gas canisters and broken bottles up - because the council don't. The astroturf gets pissed on by drunks and foxes as well - and they cost around 25k a pop to install. Remember that next time you hear the loony left councillors moaning about not having any money. The secret war on drivers: How bike racks, flower beds and 'parklet' seating areas are replacing parking spaces across the UK as councils quietly make life harder for motorists Over the pandemic 'parklets' were introduced to Britain's town and cities Local authorities are replacing parking spaces with bike racks and flower beds www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11736955/How-bike-racks-flower-beds-parklet-seating-areas-replacing-parking-spaces.html |
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Post by bancroft on Feb 12, 2023 14:47:27 GMT
I suspect this is driven by Labour councils and the Greens which is why I don't think it will take off. It might widen the political divide as driver populations move out from those areas to other places.
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Post by patman post on Feb 12, 2023 17:08:30 GMT
The motor car is probably mankind's most liberating and democratic invention. So it goes without saying that The Hierarchy Exploiting You wants to stop them being used by all except themselves........Nobody uses these parklets apart from a few drunks late at night. So lovely for the locals to have to clear the gas canisters and broken bottles up - because the council don't. The astroturf gets pissed on by drunks and foxes as well - and they cost around 25k a pop to install. Remember that next time you hear the loony left councillors moaning about not having any money. The secret war on drivers: How bike racks, flower beds and 'parklet' seating areas are replacing parking spaces across the UK as councils quietly make life harder for motorists Over the pandemic 'parklets' were introduced to Britain's town and cities Local authorities are replacing parking spaces with bike racks and flower beds www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11736955/How-bike-racks-flower-beds-parklet-seating-areas-replacing-parking-spaces.htmlHackney's not immune to the destruction of the local character by fired up green-air anti-motorist enthusiasts on its council and among its residents. Its streets are being cluttered with barriers, blockades, diversions, parklets and additional parking restrictions.
Strange to think it was only a decade ago that councils were being urged to get rid of unnecessary signs, railings and advertising hoardings in a bid to make streets tidier and less confusing...
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