|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jan 27, 2023 21:07:53 GMT
Because you don't believe in it. If I am paying an awful lot of money for a service do I have to believe in it? - surely all that has to happen is for that service to be delivered? Dare I suggest if you didn’t believe in it, you wouldn’t pay if you could find a way not to? I take the point though. I would argue I’m being charged a lot of money for something I believed in strongly enough that I spent a few years looking to research ways they could do the job better, but I’m not at all sure I’m getting the service we deserve any more |
|
|
|
Post by bancroft on Jan 27, 2023 21:09:18 GMT
When I was studying natural health, I had completed two courses via evening class and needed one more which was disease progression yet the Blair government had cancelled the courses nationwide. They had sold out to the pharmaceutical lobby. It has moved to a 4 year full time course and at 42 still renting it had become a pipe-dream overnight.
The thing is with Labour despite trying to appear to be morally superior they make deals quietly and normally with those providing services to the national institutions while the Tories go for private companies.
As the Spartacus TV drama said when Spartacus and Crassus trade verbal blows before the final battle, Spartacus says, 'I could never have been a Roman, I believe in justice.'
Crassus replies, 'There is no justice.'
Spartacus, 'You are probably right.'
Crassus, 'So something we at least agree upon.'
|
|
|
|
Post by om15 on Jan 27, 2023 21:13:54 GMT
Much, much better effective management I dare say. The NHS is an admin shambles, the Jerries are good at that sort of stuff
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 27, 2023 22:09:37 GMT
If I am paying an awful lot of money for a service do I have to believe in it? - surely all that has to happen is for that service to be delivered? Dare I suggest if you didn’t believe in it, you wouldn’t pay if you could find a way not to? I take the point though. I would argue I’m being charged a lot of money for something I believed in strongly enough that I spent a few years looking to research ways they could do the job better, but I’m not at all sure I’m getting the service we deserve any more I make no bones about it - I think we should be more European and have a Bismarck style health system. I have seen far too many NHS 'reforms' to believe that the NHS is capable of delivering a health service that the population deserves. |
|
|
|
Post by sword on Jan 27, 2023 22:12:53 GMT
They have been doing it by stealth,according to some who work in the NHS its just about already collapsed now Sajid Javid said it would be a good idea to make people pay to see their GP,many can't even get to see one already,just another example of the destruction of the NHS.
Yawn...
Glad you find the destruction of the NHS boring. |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 28, 2023 1:48:14 GMT
Glad you find the destruction of the NHS boring. There is no destruction, that's just another of your delusions. |
|
|
|
Post by Handyman on Jan 28, 2023 12:54:44 GMT
The NHS is certainly better than the American model of health service but is it better than the national health services of other western European countries? Good point. I’m sure the Scandinavians have a wonderful system but they pay in tax what the Americans get billed to their in work health insurance or so it seems I’m sure someone on a different thread recently suggested the Germans get a lot more for what seems not a lot more money. I wonder how they do it. The Germans had a Health Care System long before we did 1898 here is how they pay for it according to Wiki Germany has a universal[1] multi-payer health care system paid for by a combination of statutory health insurance and private health insurance The turnover of the health sector was about US$368.78 billion (€287.3 billion) in 2010, equivalent to 11.6 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) and about US$4,505 (€3,510) per capita.] According to the World Health Organization, Germany's health care system was 77% government-funded and 23% privately funded as of 2004. In 2004 Germany ranked thirtieth in the world in life expectancy (78 years for men). It was tied for eighth place in the number of practicing physicians, at 3.3 per 1,000 persons. It also had very low infant mortality rate (4.7 per 1,000 live births).[note 1][9] In 2001 total spending on health amounted to 10.8 percent of gross domestic product.[10] According to the Euro health consumer index, which placed it in seventh position in its 2015 survey, Germany has long had the most restriction-free and consumer-oriented healthcare system in Europe. Patients are allowed to seek almost any type of care they wish whenever they want it. 2017, the governmental health system in Germany kept a record reserve of more than €18 billion which made it one of the healthiest healthcare systems in the world at the time. There is one thing for certain the Germans are very organised and very efficient, that is what is lacking in our NHS , it is not organised and not efficient and wastes an awful lot of money every day of the year |
|
|
|
Post by vlk on Jan 28, 2023 17:01:16 GMT
It's a sign of a country of rapidly ageing population that the state of the NHS is such a big political issue.
Of course the NHS has never been unimportant but these days elections are won or lost based on how satisfied people are with the NHS.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Jan 28, 2023 20:49:06 GMT
It's a sign of a country of rapidly ageing population that the state of the NHS is such a big political issue. Of course the NHS has never been unimportant but these days elections are won or lost based on how satisfied people are with the NHS. Labour tried to make the election about the NHS in 2019, but failed. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Jan 28, 2023 22:08:58 GMT
It's a sign of a country of rapidly ageing population that the state of the NHS is such a big political issue. Of course the NHS has never been unimportant but these days elections are won or lost based on how satisfied people are with the NHS. Labour tried to make the election about the NHS in 2019, but failed. Total BOLLOCKS......Nobody incliding corbyn new what they stood for FFS....How long was it that labour tried to hold off a GE for? |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Feb 2, 2023 2:04:25 GMT
Good point. I’m sure the Scandinavians have a wonderful system but they pay in tax what the Americans get billed to their in work health insurance or so it seems I’m sure someone on a different thread recently suggested the Germans get a lot more for what seems not a lot more money. I wonder how they do it. The Germans had a Health Care System long before we did 1898 here is how they pay for it according to Wiki Germany has a universal[1] multi-payer health care system paid for by a combination of statutory health insurance and private health insurance The turnover of the health sector was about US$368.78 billion (€287.3 billion) in 2010, equivalent to 11.6 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) and about US$4,505 (€3,510) per capita.] According to the World Health Organization, Germany's health care system was 77% government-funded and 23% privately funded as of 2004. In 2004 Germany ranked thirtieth in the world in life expectancy (78 years for men). It was tied for eighth place in the number of practicing physicians, at 3.3 per 1,000 persons. It also had very low infant mortality rate (4.7 per 1,000 live births).[note 1][9] In 2001 total spending on health amounted to 10.8 percent of gross domestic product.[10] According to the Euro health consumer index, which placed it in seventh position in its 2015 survey, Germany has long had the most restriction-free and consumer-oriented healthcare system in Europe. Patients are allowed to seek almost any type of care they wish whenever they want it. 2017, the governmental health system in Germany kept a record reserve of more than €18 billion which made it one of the healthiest healthcare systems in the world at the time. There is one thing for certain the Germans are very organised and very efficient, that is what is lacking in our NHS , it is not organised and not efficient and wastes an awful lot of money every day of the year Are you not going to mention that German's pay far more tax than us in the UK? How do you think you will ever get the NHS you want if you can't engage in an honest conversation about it? The good citizens of the UK want top dollar public services, but want bargain basement tax levels. Labour are going to win the next two GE by default, now is the perfect chance to reform how to pay for and run our public services. No sign of it from Starmer though. You can all bleat on about foreign systems with zero understanding of the massive differences in culture. The typical Scandinavian willingly gives more of his income to the government for the greater good. They don't piss their income up against a wall in pubs, and they certainly don't binge on junk food and become fat fuckers riddled with diabetes, cancers and heart disease. I can just imagine Starmer now... telling the Red Wall to put down their lager and kebabs, and instead invest that money in public services haha. |
|
|
|
Post by Handyman on Feb 2, 2023 8:44:32 GMT
The Germans had a Health Care System long before we did 1898 here is how they pay for it according to Wiki Germany has a universal[1] multi-payer health care system paid for by a combination of statutory health insurance and private health insurance The turnover of the health sector was about US$368.78 billion (€287.3 billion) in 2010, equivalent to 11.6 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) and about US$4,505 (€3,510) per capita.] According to the World Health Organization, Germany's health care system was 77% government-funded and 23% privately funded as of 2004. In 2004 Germany ranked thirtieth in the world in life expectancy (78 years for men). It was tied for eighth place in the number of practicing physicians, at 3.3 per 1,000 persons. It also had very low infant mortality rate (4.7 per 1,000 live births).[note 1][9] In 2001 total spending on health amounted to 10.8 percent of gross domestic product.[10] According to the Euro health consumer index, which placed it in seventh position in its 2015 survey, Germany has long had the most restriction-free and consumer-oriented healthcare system in Europe. Patients are allowed to seek almost any type of care they wish whenever they want it. 2017, the governmental health system in Germany kept a record reserve of more than €18 billion which made it one of the healthiest healthcare systems in the world at the time. There is one thing for certain the Germans are very organised and very efficient, that is what is lacking in our NHS , it is not organised and not efficient and wastes an awful lot of money every day of the year Are you not going to mention that German's pay far more tax than us in the UK? How do you think you will ever get the NHS you want if you can't engage in an honest conversation about it? The good citizens of the UK want top dollar public services, but want bargain basement tax levels. Labour are going to win the next two GE by default, now is the perfect chance to reform how to pay for and run our public services. No sign of it from Starmer though. You can all bleat on about foreign systems with zero understanding of the massive differences in culture. The typical Scandinavian willingly gives more of his income to the government for the greater good. They don't piss their income up against a wall in pubs, and they certainly don't binge on junk food and become fat fuckers riddled with diabetes, cancers and heart disease. I can just imagine Starmer now... telling the Red Wall to put down their lager and kebabs, and instead invest that money in public services haha. As per usual you get what you pay for in this day and age, but often you don't get value for your money, money alone will not solve the NHS problems no matter how much you pump into it, been done didn't work , it cannot keep up with the demand on it due to the size of the population IMO |
|
