|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Jan 28, 2023 13:29:29 GMT
Argued with him enough on the old board, it would be an echo chamber if I didn't mute him. Nothing new has come from him, nothing new to add to the debate of 7 years ago. It's time to move on and look to the future and make the most of things not gaze teary eyed to the past. I don't think people are repeating the debate of 7 years ago. This thread and many like it are discussing the consequences going forward not harping on about the past. For some reason many Leave voters don't really want to discuss the consequences of their vote. We get the same sort of responses that Trump voters gave for 4 years when avoiding taking responsibility for their choices. Along the lines of ''you lost, get over it'' or ''Democracy is a bitch''. Well to turn around another of the MAGA mantras ''elections have consequences'' and it's those consequences that need to be debated. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jan 28, 2023 13:33:54 GMT
Bitching about the vote of 7 years ago and going over old ground sulking instead of accepting the vote and looking to the future is harping on about the past.
We knew there'd be consequences from our vote, that's why we voted.
We wanted profound and serious change.
Change takes time.
Leaving was just the start.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jan 28, 2023 13:35:17 GMT
Linking leavers with Trump supporters?
I thought ex remainers grew out of that one ..ho hum🙄
|
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Jan 28, 2023 14:04:19 GMT
Bitching about the vote of 7 years ago and going over old ground sulking instead of accepting the vote and looking to the future is harping on about the past. We knew there'd be consequences from our vote, that's why we voted. We wanted profound and serious change. Change takes time. Leaving was just the start. I'm not seeing any bitching about the vote 7 years ago. Certainly not in this thread (I just re-read it). What I am seeing is a lot of people avoiding talking about the consequences of the vote. Just like you are doing here. It's not surprising you want to avoid talking about the consequences and some here don't even want Parliament to discuss it but the issues aren't going away no matter how much you ignore them. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Jan 28, 2023 14:06:34 GMT
Linking leavers with Trump supporters? I thought ex remainers grew out of that one ..ho hum🙄 Same slogans. Same unwillingness to discuss the consequences. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Jan 28, 2023 14:18:42 GMT
Linking leavers with Trump supporters? I thought ex remainers grew out of that one ..ho hum🙄 Same slogans. Same unwillingness to discuss the consequences. How can they when they know there's nothing good to report. Seven years down the line and they're still saying its too soon. Blaming Covid, well every country had Covid so why are we doing so much worse. All the talk of new trade deals have gone silent, the claims that the UK will become a new silicone valley are fading fast, cuts in immigration didn't happen for years and when they did just caused a shrinking GDP as we produced less. What can they point to, no wonder they want remainers to shut up, they must feel bloody stupid. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 14:25:40 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 14:31:37 GMT
Linking leavers with Trump supporters? I thought ex remainers grew out of that one ..ho hum🙄 Same slogans. Same unwillingness to discuss the consequences. What are these consequences you speak of? Inflation is slightly higher in the €urozone than in the UK, unemployment is higher in the €urozone than in the UK, the €urozone like the UK is experiencing sky high energy costs largely due to net zero, and a cost of living crisis. Surely it cant all be because of Brexit? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2023 14:32:30 GMT
As soon as possible, if not immediately, is the best time to do it. The idea is to learn -- and learn from -- whether or not it was indeed beneficial. You want it to be relevant and timely and debating it ten years after would be just be an academic exercise. Everybody, particularly the government, needs to know now to ensure that long term policies are safe, realistic and beneficial to the UK. So far, the Tories have been running on their Brexit ideology and nothing else. Policies are made solely to cater to their Brexit agenda. Time to see whether they're justified doing it that way. Beneficial in what way? It's difficult to judge the economic effect because the pandemic has caused so much damage to all economies (including EU economies). Also Brexit isn't yet complete - we need to sort out the NI Protocol and repeal a lot of EU laws/rules that we don't need. I don't think the govt have even started that yet. All we're seeing so far is how difficult the EU can be when it really tries, mainly in trying to hinder trade with NI. The whole point of Brexit is to adopt our own policies but we haven't yet done that because our politicians have been too busy arguing among themselves about who should be PM. I'm still waiting for an apology from the Tories for taking us into the EU on the false promise that it wasn't a political project. That's the biggest lie ever. Of course, in every way -- Brexit's effect on the economy and its consequent effect on the well being of the UK. I do not think it is difficult to extricate Brexit from the pandemic. Lots of work, yeah, but not terribly difficult. After all, we were fully out by 1st Jan 2021. The world economy opened sometime in 2021 so a clear, safe, credible assessment of Brexit sometime in 2023 would be do-able. We have left the EU. Brexit is complete. The contract has been signed. The ink is dry. Ask your forum friends here -- they'll tell you. So, when you say "Brexit isn't yet complete"; it is very clear that you actually mean to say, let's give Brexit a bit more time and a chance to deliver all those promises you guys made. Be kind to Brexit, if you will. Give it extra period in the forlorn hope that maybe, just maybe it can deliver something that could justify and validate your choices. But we have adopted our own policies! We've rolled over trade deals. We have deviated and continue to deviate from EU standards. We've created our own immigration scheme. We have ditched the Single Market and their CU. Northern Ireland protocol and our current stance on it, remember? We even reverted to the old blue passport. Ad infinitum. What you don't want to say is that our own Brexit-driven policies are not in sync with the imperatives of maintaining a successful economy. If I were all of you, Brexit reinforcers; I would stop the gas lighting and self-delusion and just come out with the truth: a reduced, diminished, divided United Kingdom is the price to pay for Brexit. And try to convince people that it is a price worth paying. |
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Jan 28, 2023 14:34:15 GMT
Bitching about the vote of 7 years ago and going over old ground sulking instead of accepting the vote and looking to the future is harping on about the past. We knew there'd be consequences from our vote, that's why we voted. We wanted profound and serious change. Change takes time. Leaving was just the start. I'm not seeing any bitching about the vote 7 years ago. Certainly not in this thread (I just re-read it). What I am seeing is a lot of people avoiding talking about the consequences of the vote. Just like you are doing here. It's not surprising you want to avoid talking about the consequences and some here don't even want Parliament to discuss it but the issues aren't going away no matter how much you ignore them. Consequences of the vote: Democracy. Being outside the single market means no free movement of EU criminals. VISAS mean the workers we do need from abroad can come, without discriminating by nationality. A free trade deal with no tariffs and no quotas. Sure there's customs clearance checks, but that's not the end of the world. We're doing more trade with the USA. Our carbon footprint has gone down, rather than up.
Economic hardships are the legacy of the Covid crisis and the war in Ukraine.
Not Brexit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jan 28, 2023 14:35:05 GMT
Linking leavers with Trump supporters? I thought ex remainers grew out of that one ..ho hum🙄 Same slogans. Same unwillingness to discuss the consequences. Nope. No one make the UK great again and it seems that it’s remainers who ignore the leavers argument that it’s early days and insist on a list of that they approve of . |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Jan 28, 2023 14:41:12 GMT
Same slogans. Same unwillingness to discuss the consequences. What are these consequences you speak of? Inflation is slightly higher in the €urozone than in the UK, unemployment is higher in the €urozone than in the UK, the €urozone like the UK is experiencing sky high energy costs largely due to net zero, and a cost of living crisis. Surely it cant all be because of Brexit? Barriers to trade is the main consequence as far as I can see. Restrictions to free movement has also caused problems in many UK sectors. Political chaos in Parliament for years as a result of determining what Brexit actually means. That's just 3 off the top of my head. If you want more then Darling's Dave Davis thread provides 100s of detailed consequences. ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/thread/1253/david-davis-dossier |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Jan 28, 2023 14:46:05 GMT
What are these consequences you speak of? Inflation is slightly higher in the €urozone than in the UK, unemployment is higher in the €urozone than in the UK, the €urozone like the UK is experiencing sky high energy costs largely due to net zero, and a cost of living crisis. Surely it cant all be because of Brexit? Barriers to trade is the main consequence as far as I can see. Restrictions to free movement has also caused problems in many UK sectors. Political chaos in Parliament for years as a result of determining what Brexit actually means. That's just 3 off the top of my head. If you want more then Darling's Dave Davis thread provides 100s of detailed consequences. ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/thread/1253/david-davis-dossierBarriers to trade are mostly unnecessary, but the UK must be punished for Brexit. Our biggest problem is weak government. The EU are treating us like cunts and our politicians are sucking it up. That is the problem. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2023 14:51:09 GMT
"This post is hidden". Love the iggy button. Is this way of announcing that you are transitioning Vinny? Do you want us to call you Lavinia now?  I don't think so. It's his amusing little way of saying that he just doesn't block people. He wants the entire forum to know that he has this huge, uncontainable need and urge to let it be known that he has blocked someone. The same little way he spends time and effort to open a thread, read it and then reply that he's bored. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Jan 28, 2023 14:51:32 GMT
Barriers to trade is the main consequence as far as I can see. Restrictions to free movement has also caused problems in many UK sectors. Political chaos in Parliament for years as a result of determining what Brexit actually means. That's just 3 off the top of my head. If you want more then Darling's Dave Davis thread provides 100s of detailed consequences. ukpoliticsdebate.boards.net/thread/1253/david-davis-dossierBarriers to trade are mostly unnecessary, but the UK must be punished for Brexit. Our biggest problem is weak government. The EU are treating us like cunts and our politicians are sucking it up. That is the problem. They are a direct consequence of choosing to leave the EU. There are no measures applied to the UK that are not applied to any other non EU members. If the hardliners had got their way and we'd left with a no deal Brexit things would be even more difficult for us. Talk of ''punishment'' is mere avoidance of responsibility. It's dishonest and transparent. |
|
