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Post by zanygame on Feb 12, 2023 8:11:47 GMT
Rubbish. What are these fines? A tax they pass onto the customer but which still makes ICE cars cheaper. But tax is not a fine! For someone who has trashed an entire thread of mine arguing semantics, I thought you would be more careful. Ice cars are still miles cheaper than electric, but people (not you) understand the need to stop polluting The coercion was needed at the beginning to develop the vehicles. But as always with you I have to keep typing the same words over and again because you don't listen. You don't argue back my points with thought through rebuffs, you just keep repeating yourself. Frankly its boring. The legislation to outlaw ICE cars was not to force people to buy electric ones, but to cut Co2 emissions in the future. You find that sentence obtuse? Difficult to understand? Hmm. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2023 8:13:34 GMT
So they brought out a hi-brid FFS....IC cars can be kept going for ever unlike those who run on duracells. Plugin hybrids are good and now having owned a modern one I would ask the government to reconsider them. I bought mine because I couldn't get the electric I wanted at that time. But I find I am getting 168mpg because 80% of my journeys use no petrol at all. But the ones on Duracell's also run forever. Until the battery dies and they are cost prohibitive to replace. |
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Post by Pacifico on Feb 12, 2023 8:22:18 GMT
So they brought out a hi-brid FFS....IC cars can be kept going for ever unlike those who run on duracells. Plugin hybrids are good and now having owned a modern one I would ask the government to reconsider them. I bought mine because I couldn't get the electric I wanted at that time. But I find I am getting 168mpg because 80% of my journeys use no petrol at all. But the ones on Duracell's also run forever. Well you know that is untrue - all rechargeable batteries lose capacity with use and time. The manual for the Nissan Leaf states: “Nissan estimates that battery capacity will be approximately 80% of original capacity after five years,"
and Chevrolet: “Depending on use, the battery may degrade as little as 10% to as much as 40% of capacity over the warranty period.” |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 12, 2023 9:04:32 GMT
Plugin hybrids are good and now having owned a modern one I would ask the government to reconsider them. I bought mine because I couldn't get the electric I wanted at that time. But I find I am getting 168mpg because 80% of my journeys use no petrol at all. But the ones on Duracell's also run forever. Until the battery dies and they are cost prohibitive to replace. Whereas gearboxes and engines never die and don't cost anything much to replace. |
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Post by Toreador on Feb 12, 2023 9:12:17 GMT
Nonsense. There is massive coercion. Car manufacturers are effectively being fined for selling customers the cars they would prefer. New Ic cars are going to be banned which means manufacturers are forced to switch focus. Rubbish. What are these fines? Ice cars are still miles cheaper than electric, but people (not you) understand the need to stop polluting
And repeat. Already answered this several times. The legislation to outlaw ICE cars was not to force people to buy electric ones, but to cut Co2 emissions in the future. You could do that by not owning a car. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 12, 2023 9:32:10 GMT
Rubbish. What are these fines? Ice cars are still miles cheaper than electric, but people (not you) understand the need to stop polluting
And repeat. Already answered this several times. The legislation to outlaw ICE cars was not to force people to buy electric ones, but to cut Co2 emissions in the future. You could do that by not owning a car. Yes and that has been encouraged as well. but the government recognised this was not viable for a large number of people and so came up with an alternative. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2023 10:29:25 GMT
Until the battery dies and they are cost prohibitive to replace. Whereas gearboxes and engines never die and don't cost anything much to replace. They can be repaired...Maybe you would like to tell us what can be repaired on an EV apart from changing a light bulb or switch? |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 12, 2023 10:37:26 GMT
Whereas gearboxes and engines never die and don't cost anything much to replace. They can be repaired...Maybe you would like to tell us what can be repaired on an EV apart from changing a light bulb or switch? So can batteries now. Most can now have individual cells replaced. Though I agree that wasn't the case initially. And obviously the motor, drives etc just like any electrical appliances |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2023 10:42:40 GMT
They can be repaired...Maybe you would like to tell us what can be repaired on an EV apart from changing a light bulb or switch? So can batteries now. Most can now have individual cells replaced. Though I agree that wasn't the case initially. And obviously the motor, drives etc just like any electrical appliances Have you seen the prices? And who is trained to repair these oversized sewing machines? |
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Post by Orac on Feb 12, 2023 10:59:30 GMT
A tax they pass onto the customer but which still makes ICE cars cheaper. It makes ice cars more expensive than they need to be in comparison to (say) an EV, but not more expensive than an Ev. Doubling or tripling the price of all cars would amount to closing down most car manufactures - this would be politically inviable presently. The issue at hand is whether the government is using coercion. Punishing a company for using a competing technology is using coercion in favour of that technology as is banning the sale of a technology. So, the correct answer is - the government is using coercion. But tax is not a fine! For someone who has trashed an entire thread of mine arguing semantics, I thought you would be more careful. I said effectively fining - taxing a technology is using coercion to favour that technology's competitors. I think using a tax like this is effectively fining - ie telling an agent they have done 'something wrong' by using one technology rather than another. The transgression here amounts to selling their customers what they want and need, and so it a particularly idiotic and destructive The coercion was needed at the beginning to develop the vehicles. By 'at the beginning', do you mean the first two centuries? The delusion here is amazing - it's like talking to a soviet spokesman about tractor plans You find that sentence obtuse? Difficult to understand? Hmm. Obtuse means to engage in the wilful pose of being unable to understand. Btw - if the semantic issue i raised in that thread were really of no consequence, nobody would have expended effort arguing it. My view is that odd phrasing is used by some people because it is somewhat misleading. You should try starting a well defined thread in mind zone - In that area the owner gets quite a bit of jurisdiction |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 12, 2023 11:19:53 GMT
So can batteries now. Most can now have individual cells replaced. Though I agree that wasn't the case initially. And obviously the motor, drives etc just like any electrical appliances Have you seen the prices? Yes I appreciate that as soon as one problem is overcome its always possible to jump to the next. So mileage was to big criticism with stories of people regularly driving to lands end, that got solved, then it was charge times which proved not to be an issue for most owners, then cost, then battery life with many manufacturers so confident they are offering 7 year guarantee. Now its cost of those future repairs. And every time while denying the things that effect ICE vehicles . For instance, repairing a gear box is colossally expensive, almost as much as buying a new one or scrapping the vehicle. But lets pretend its not.. Demand for repairs is not there yet but as it grows so more places will open to meet that demand, that's just business. |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2023 11:22:38 GMT
Have you seen the prices? Yes I appreciate that as soon as one problem is overcome its always possible to jump to the next. So mileage was to big criticism with stories of people regularly driving to lands end, that got solved, then it was charge times which proved not to be an issue for most owners, then cost, then battery life with many manufacturers so confident they are offering 7 year guarantee. Now its cost of those future repairs. And every time while denying the things that effect ICE vehicles . For instance, repairing a gear box is colossally expensive, almost as much as buying a new one or scrapping the vehicle. But lets pretend its not.. Demand for repairs is not there yet but as it grows so more places will open to meet that demand, that's just business. Well at our local Tech college nothing about EV’s are being mentioned or acted upon… |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 12, 2023 11:32:57 GMT
A tax they pass onto the customer but which still makes ICE cars cheaper. In which case any government charge is coercion. So how would you pay for the damage ICE vehicles cause to the environment? But tax is not a fine! For someone who has trashed an entire thread of mine arguing semantics, I thought you would be more careful. So that misrepresentation of words is OK for you to make a point, but not for others. Personally I don't mind the misuse of wrds so long as the overall meaning is clear, but you trashed an entire thread by repeatedly criticising it. The coercion was needed at the beginning to develop the vehicles. Bizarre statement. Obviously I mean in the beginning of the development of current electric vehicles from the point where environmentalists persuaded governments of the need. Why must I waste so much time playing these stupid games with you? You find that sentence obtuse? Difficult to understand? Hmm. Obtuse means to engage in wilful pose of being unable to understand. Btw - if the semantic issue i raised in that thread were really of no consequence, nobody would have expended effort arguing it. My view is that odd phrasing is used by some people because it is somewhat misleading But it wasn't obtuse. The meaning was very clear. "The legislation to outlaw ICE cars was not to force people to buy electric ones, but to cut Co2 emissions in the future." Means that the government were legislating to stop people buying cars that pollute the planet. The obvious role of the EV was to offer an environmentally friendly replacement. By all means argue against my points if you think they are wrong, but stop this stupid obfuscation. |
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Post by zanygame on Feb 12, 2023 11:38:09 GMT
Yes I appreciate that as soon as one problem is overcome its always possible to jump to the next. So mileage was to big criticism with stories of people regularly driving to lands end, that got solved, then it was charge times which proved not to be an issue for most owners, then cost, then battery life with many manufacturers so confident they are offering 7 year guarantee. Now its cost of those future repairs. And every time while denying the things that effect ICE vehicles . For instance, repairing a gear box is colossally expensive, almost as much as buying a new one or scrapping the vehicle. But lets pretend its not.. Demand for repairs is not there yet but as it grows so more places will open to meet that demand, that's just business. Well at our local Tech college nothing about EV’s are being mentioned or acted upon… Not sure the relevance of this? Does your tech college teach all other car repairs? |
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Post by jonksy on Feb 12, 2023 11:41:34 GMT
Well at our local Tech college nothing about EV’s are being mentioned or acted upon… Not sure the relevance of this? Does your tech college teach all other car repairs? According to our Bricky apprentice there are very many being trained up for IC’s but none for EV’s……I am out at the mo on my IPad when I get home I will check on what courses are offered and supply the relevant link. |
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