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Post by oracle75 on Jan 20, 2023 10:04:03 GMT
It isn't punishment. Why should the UK be given special treatment compared to other countries? The UK has become so used to being exceptional that too many assume that is part of the permanent physical laws of the universe. The last comment is a classic remainer whine. The UK has not been exceptional since WW2. The UK joined a free trade community and left because enough of the population with voting rights decided it wasn’t in our interests to stay. First the UK had more opt outs in the EU than any other country. And I am asking you straight up...what is in our interests now we have left? What can we do now that we couldn't do while inside the EU? How did the EU hold us back so much that it was imperative to leave?
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 20, 2023 10:06:07 GMT
In which case, those who wanted to leave and promised the free trade agreements, got it wrong. To a point yes. I thought that pragmatism would win the day but it seems that the EU and US wanted to punish the UK for daring to leave the fold . The US specifically warned us prior to the referendum that a US trade deal was unlikely in the near future. Some leavers just didn't listen and are now trying to put it out as a conspiracy theory! 😂
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 10:09:16 GMT
I think most people in this country are quite used to politicians promises and know exactly how much they are worth. I don’t think that many leavers thought that the UK would be richer after leaving the EU. I think the remain campaign lost the vote through its project fear tactic ( the economy will rank) and the underlying insinuation that Brexit was fuelled by racism. imo immigration was the key issue . The remain campaign simply didn’t address it. If the general public in the UK had much of any idea other than the lies they read in the Murdoch press, they would have quickly realised that what they were told about what the eu does (bent bananas??) and how laws are made and what the commission does was impossible. I do think a significant amount of the leavers argument was racist. Unfortunately we now have fewer employees from overseas who volunteer to come and arechaving to hire from thousands of air miles away through agencies we pay for. And they are still not British. Where are all these new medical schools (not to mention 40 new hospitals) we were promised? Nurses still have to pay for three years of uni plus rising interest rates and still have to pay for parking at work. Where are all those promised changes that would self supply our services?instead they are on strike because they have to go to food banks!! Where are the planned seeds of improvement in the quality of life outside the EU that couldn't be done when still inside THE EU? You tell me because I really don't see them. Not the old bent banana remainer staple 😁 Just as most people know not to trust politicians, even more people know how much to trust newspapers. The leave argument wasnt racist . I won’t go over it all again but the claim that leavers were racist was a remainer ploy to smear Leavers which blew up their virtue signalling faces and ultimately lost them the referendum imo. Maybe a post Brexit UK give more people vocational training and stop poaching cheap Labour from abroad.
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 20, 2023 10:10:11 GMT
It was you who said this: Just for clarification, can you give an example where "Starmer/Davy/Sturgeon" actually held back progress on Brexit?I gave you link as an example. That, as I said is self-explanatory. You now are asking about timelines, why is that? As it wasn't mentioned in your original question when you asked for an example. I didn't expect an exercise on working my way through opinions, I expected a clear straight forward example which you have failed to provide. I didn't give you an opinion. I gave you a link based on fact. If that is too hard for you to comprehend then maybe you're out of your depth on here.
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 10:11:15 GMT
As far as I'm aware the government had a majority. That puts them in the driving seat. But that wasn’t the case with Callaghan in 76 and is sure as hell isn’t the case in wales after that clusterfuck disaster that cost labour their majority in 2003 The majority Labour Party has for the last eight or nine years been wagged by the Marxist ultranationalist plaid. Look at every decision they’ve taken. Tourism. Business. Transport. All fucked by the cottageburners. Fact is a starmer labour minority government faced with Liberal Democrat demands to rejoin or dissolve will rejoin at any price rather than kiss the government benches goodbye With any luck the blood tests I’m now waiting for that hope to explain my one and a half stone weight loss will tell me I won’t be here to tell you I told you so. Because if that does come about I pity my grand daughters generation My point is that the UK government is in control of Brexit, and Starmer has openly declared almost two years ago, that he fully accepts Brexit. So no amount of blame pushing and finger pointing at opposition to Brexit changes the fact that the UK government is in control of Brexit. I genuinely wish you the best of luck with your blood tests, and that you have many happy years ahead of you.
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 10:11:25 GMT
To a point yes. I thought that pragmatism would win the day but it seems that the EU and US wanted to punish the UK for daring to leave the fold . The US specifically warned us prior to the referendum that a US trade deal was unlikely in the near future. Some leavers just didn't listen and are now trying to put it out as a conspiracy theory! 😂 Tbh I’m not sure that a trade deal with the US is in our interests. The yanks would want too much from us.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 20, 2023 10:11:48 GMT
To a point yes. I thought that pragmatism would win the day but it seems that the EU and US wanted to punish the UK for daring to leave the fold . The US specifically warned us prior to the referendum that a US trade deal was unlikely in the near future. Some leavers just didn't listen and are now trying to put it out as a conspiracy theory! 😂 So you think the US says jump, and the UK say how high?
The US is not our government, the US is not our people, why would you think they can dictate our politics?
We will not be blackmailed by the US or any other country for that matter, we have our own democracy, if the US want to play hard ball that's up to them, but the US is not the rest of the world, in fact with Biden as the President the US is a laughing stock.
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 10:14:06 GMT
The last comment is a classic remainer whine. The UK has not been exceptional since WW2. The UK joined a free trade community and left because enough of the population with voting rights decided it wasn’t in our interests to stay. First the UK had more opt outs in the EU than any other country. And I am asking you straight up...what is in our interests now we have left? What can we do now that we couldn't do while inside the EU? How did the EU hold us back so much that it was imperative to leave? Control immigration. I think that was the key issue. Whether we will ever control immigration is another matter.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 20, 2023 10:17:30 GMT
If the general public in the UK had much of any idea other than the lies they read in the Murdoch press, they would have quickly realised that what they were told about what the eu does (bent bananas??) and how laws are made and what the commission does was impossible. I do think a significant amount of the leavers argument was racist. Unfortunately we now have fewer employees from overseas who volunteer to come and arechaving to hire from thousands of air miles away through agencies we pay for. And they are still not British. Where are all these new medical schools (not to mention 40 new hospitals) we were promised? Nurses still have to pay for three years of uni plus rising interest rates and still have to pay for parking at work. Where are all those promised changes that would self supply our services?instead they are on strike because they have to go to food banks!! Where are the planned seeds of improvement in the quality of life outside the EU that couldn't be done when still inside THE EU? You tell me because I really don't see them. Not the old bent banana remainer staple 😁 Just as most people know not to trust politicians, even more people know how much to trust newspapers. The leave argument wasnt racist . I won’t go over it all again but the claim that leavers were racist was a remainer ploy to smear Leavers which blew up their virtue signalling faces and ultimately lost them the referendum imo. Maybe a post Brexit UK give more people vocational training and stop poaching cheap Labour from abroad. Not all leavers were racists but all racists were leavers. 6 years on and I am still waiting for anyone to even start to discuss vocational training, even as investing in apprenticeships. This isn't difficult. It is obvious. BUT THE BREXIT GOVERNMENT JUST DIDNT CARE. The only thing that STILL seems to matter is that leavers won by 4%. The whole thing is played over and over in a science fiction type never ending loop. It is now time to make the reasons leavers promised, work. And that is what Starmer is talking about.
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 10:18:13 GMT
When it comes to Squeezy I KNOW I'm not wrong. Your opinions do not change that reality. I think you could be wrong . You think you can’t be wrong . I think my position is rational . I don't think "I can't be wrong" that is just your twist. But I know about the posts I have read from squeezy. Of course your concocted position, is rational to you LOL.
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Post by see2 on Jan 20, 2023 10:22:20 GMT
I didn't expect an exercise on working my way through opinions, I expected a clear straight forward example which you have failed to provide. I didn't give you an opinion. I gave you a link based on fact. If that is too hard for you to comprehend then maybe you're out of your depth on here. Wake up. If there was positive proof of my request, a simple copy and paste of the fact was all that was needed. An insinuation that the proof was obvious is nothing more than an insinuation.
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Post by buccaneer on Jan 20, 2023 10:25:15 GMT
I didn't give you an opinion. I gave you a link based on fact. If that is too hard for you to comprehend then maybe you're out of your depth on here. Wake up. If there was positive proof of my request, a simple copy and paste of the fact was all that was needed. An insinuation that the proof was obvious is nothing more than an insinuation. I've given you a link for crying out loud. If you're too lazy to read the link and comprehend what it says, you're in the wrong place. You asked for an example. You got it. No amount of obfuscation and word wriggling will change that.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 20, 2023 10:26:58 GMT
You are selectively talking about tiny changes in small amounts of time. The lowest paid in state industry and services are going on strike one after the other because the Brexit government which is in place because leavers won a vote I can hardly call democratic unless you accept lies and false promises as part of the process, and promised higher wages...and now refuses to discuss the subject! So tell me how Brexit helped the part of the low paid economy when it was the very leavers wjo are now ministers ministers who promised higher wages! Economies are always affected by world affairs. Government is about hedging against the worst and being prudent in the good times. Not tossing all your cards up in the air and hope they land right side up. So far, Brexit hasn't even begun to move towards delivering any of those promises. It's debt to GDP ratio is horrific and interest rates are going up. The problem is how Brexit Britain is going to handle that as the rest of the prosperous west, already ahead in growth and development, is going to keep up. Unfortunately, the factual parts of your post apply to the rest of Europe and the rest is your usual subjective opinion. Meanwhile back in the real world, far from being the disaster that you pretend, Brexit has been okay for the vast majority of people in the UK.
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Post by Bentley on Jan 20, 2023 10:29:02 GMT
Not the old bent banana remainer staple 😁 Just as most people know not to trust politicians, even more people know how much to trust newspapers. The leave argument wasnt racist . I won’t go over it all again but the claim that leavers were racist was a remainer ploy to smear Leavers which blew up their virtue signalling faces and ultimately lost them the referendum imo. Maybe a post Brexit UK give more people vocational training and stop poaching cheap Labour from abroad. Not all leavers were racists but all racists were leavers. 6 years on and I am still waiting for anyone to even start to discuss vocational training, even as investing in apprenticeships. This isn't difficult. It is obvious. BUT THE BREXIT GOVERNMENT JUST DIDNT CARE. The only thing that STILL seems to matter is that leavers won by 4%. The whole thing is played over and over in a science fiction type never ending loop. It is now time to make the reasons leavers promised, work. And that is what Starmer is talking about. Not really. There are quite a few racists within the East Europeans that migrated to the UK. The government has been chasing its tail since COVID . It’s undeniably a bit of a shit show atm. Yes the leavers won by a small majority l Starmer will lead a government of identity politics Imo. He has the potential to make Tories look like statesmen.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 20, 2023 10:32:21 GMT
You are selectively talking about tiny changes in small amounts of time. The lowest paid in state industry and services are going on strike one after the other because the Brexit government which is in place because leavers won a vote I can hardly call democratic unless you accept lies and false promises as part of the process, and promised higher wages...and now refuses to discuss the subject! So tell me how Brexit helped the part of the low paid economy when it was the very leavers wjo are now ministers ministers who promised higher wages! Economies are always affected by world affairs. Government is about hedging against the worst and being prudent in the good times. Not tossing all your cards up in the air and hope they land right side up. So far, Brexit hasn't even begun to move towards delivering any of those promises. It's debt to GDP ratio is horrific and interest rates are going up. The problem is how Brexit Britain is going to handle that as the rest of the prosperous west, already ahead in growth and development, is going to keep up. Unfortunately, the factual parts of your post apply to the rest of Europe and the rest is your usual subjective opinion. Meanwhile back in the real world, far from being the disaster that you pretend, Brexit has been okay for the vast majority of people in the UK. OK. Give me three actual things that Brexit has allowed the people of Britain to do which are positive and which could not have been done while still a member of the EU. I never said Brexit is a disaster. I said it was a pointless exercise in making the global position of the UK more difficult than it needed to be.
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