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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 14, 2023 13:16:05 GMT
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 14, 2023 14:08:22 GMT
It's total nonsense though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 14:25:57 GMT
If I were a betting man, I would now begin to lay out the odds as to when ( not if ) we are back in the Single Market or somehow aligned with, or part of the European Economic Area.
Some people cannot see further than the end of their noses, and refuse to accept what is over the horizon, but to not acknowledge that it is in your best interests to work closely, and in alignement, with your neighbours, who are also your most important trading partners, is sheer obstinacy.
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Post by Toreador on Jan 14, 2023 14:58:49 GMT
If I were a betting man, I would now begin to lay out the odds as to when ( not if ) we are back in the Single Market or somehow aligned with, or part of the European Economic Area. Some people cannot see further than the end of their noses, and refuse to accept what is over the horizon, but to not acknowledge that it is in your best interests to work closely, and in alignement, with your neighbours, who are also your most important trading partners, is sheer obstinacy. I hope our neighbours are reading your post and working towards becoming good neighbours.
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Post by om15 on Jan 14, 2023 15:05:02 GMT
I don't think people are losing faith in Brexit, they are losing faith in the Conservatives to make Brexit a success, which is different. The Establishment (Civil Service, lefties in media, education and politics) are determined that Brexit will not be a success.
There is a difference between "working closely and in alignment with" and being under their Parliamentary control and paying through the nose for the pleasure.
Out best interests is building towards Pacific Trade, which is what we are doing.
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Post by Bentley on Jan 14, 2023 15:14:20 GMT
We are gradually being gaslighted by the usual suspects to believe that our time as a member of the EU was a period of milk and honey without any discernible problems . Apparently we were lured away from this paradise by lying ,fascist, right wingers who baited lying , fascist and stupid Brexiters.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 14, 2023 15:14:22 GMT
I know this will upset the Remnants, but let's inject some real-life experience into the debate:
When we left the EU my personal portfolio was barely dented. Covid had a far greater effect on it (from which it's since recovered) and China fully opening up for business again this week has created significant gains.
Indeed, the UK market is now trading higher than it was pre-Brexit and pre-Covid.
All of which proves that EU membership isn't greatly important to UK plc's economic well-being and that other influences have a far greater effect.
Which is not to say that everything in the garden is rosy. For several decades the UK economy has been held back by a failure to invest in our people which was disguised for many years by the importation of cheap foreign labour.
But now that's been curtailed, those underlying structural issues have again become visible.
Of course, disingenuous commentators and their gullible believers will try to blame Brexit for those issues but that's like blaming the wallpaper for a crack in the wall: “If only we could put the EU wallpaper back up we wouldn't be able to see the cracks.”
Well, no. But they would of course still be there. And right now, Brexit is the only way that companies and public bodies can be made to properly address the underlying structural issues rather than hiding behind the EU excuse.
But there again, it would seem that most properly run companies are getting on with business as usual. And for those that are moaning, I'd suggest that says more about their incompetent management practices than it does about Brexit.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 14, 2023 15:18:46 GMT
Why do the EU keep planting these stories?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 14, 2023 15:24:59 GMT
Why do the EU keep planting these stories?
Because the EU is France and Germany - the rest, as someone said, are just the trimmings.
The PIIGS and the former Eastern bloc nations bring very little to the EU table. The UK did and the EU needs the UK's contribution.
They also don't want a powerful competitor, unconstrained by their rules, on the doorstep.
In short, they need us more than we need them.
But the gullible keep lapping up these stories.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 15:36:18 GMT
But there was always 33% of Tory voters that were remainers, in the same way there was a proportion of Labour voters who were leavers. People try to divvy Brexit up along party lines, but it never did work.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 14, 2023 17:38:54 GMT
If I were a betting man, I would now begin to lay out the odds as to when ( not if ) we are back in the Single Market or somehow aligned with, or part of the European Economic Area. Some people cannot see further than the end of their noses, and refuse to accept what is over the horizon, but to not acknowledge that it is in your best interests to work closely, and in alignement, with your neighbours, who are also your most important trading partners, is sheer obstinacy. I'm sure then that whatever Party is advocating this will have a landslide of support at the next election.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 18:02:44 GMT
Pacifico ... But that does not follow through does it ?
Which Pro European political party should I vote for, the Lib Dems, Greens, the SNP, Plaid, various Northern Ireland parties, and then if Labour proposed rejoining the Single Market, the list of Pro European choices is longer.
Splitting the vote
Only one main political party will not propose a pro European policy, and thats the Tories
Our voting system means that though there actually is a majority ( according to polls ) who wish to join the Single Market, and though more people may vote for pro European parties, the Tories could still win.
So your statement "I'm sure that whatever Party is advocating this will have a landslide of support at the next election" does not follow at all.
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 14, 2023 18:09:00 GMT
But there was always 33% of Tory voters that were remainers, in the same way there was a proportion of Labour voters who were leavers. People try to divvy Brexit up along party lines, but it never did work. I agree, it may even have been higher. Remember the government were recommending a remain vote. It was only afterwards, and particularly during the Johnson era, that the Tories turned into the Brexit or UKIP Party. Which was ironically the reason they held the referendum in the first place. Totally agree that Brexit was never a left / right thing in the way that some people paint it to be. Wouldn't surprise me if Corbyn voted leave either.
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Post by om15 on Jan 14, 2023 18:12:51 GMT
I think that Pacifico was exercising his Irony.
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 14, 2023 18:20:05 GMT
Pacifico ... But that does not follow through does it ? Which Pro European political party should I vote for, the Lib Dems, Greens, the SNP, Plaid, various Northern Ireland parties, and then if Labour proposed rejoining the Single Market, the list of Pro European choices is longer. Splitting the vote Only one main political party will not propose a pro European policy, and thats the Tories Our voting system means that though there actually is a majority ( according to polls ) who wish to join the Single Market, and though more people may vote for pro European parties, the Tories could still win. So your statement "I'm sure that whatever Party is advocating this will have a landslide of support at the next election" does not follow at all. Thats a rather sweeping statement considering that nobody knows what the price would be.. Your point about the vote being split is moot as well - in all spheres of policy there are overlaps where different parties agree over something. The fact is that we had a majority of pro-EU MP's in Parliament when they were asked if we wanted to be part of the Single Market (EEA member) and they rejected it.
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