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Post by thomas on Jan 8, 2023 10:32:39 GMT
talking about the nhs again , i see starmer was squirming on the telly about his labour leadership ledge to have public sector in public hands , not making profit for private shareholders.
Now he is talking about outsourcing the nhs to the private sector. lmfao.
I absolutely love new labour i really do. You can have so much fun with them.
It’s already happening. Starmer is utterly useless . i agree.
I know its hard to pin starmer down on any concrete policy , but what little we do glimpse is same old same old blairite rhetoric .Im beginning to wonder if starmer has actually a single original thought in his head.
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Post by Steve on Jan 8, 2023 10:56:26 GMT
 I've had worse bites from dead sheep The evil tories forced the French to set up a hybrid health system that is now the best in the world? Who knew?
If you are going to throw tory bogeymen jibes at anyone who disagrees with your imperfect world vision , then we may as well give up trying to hold a conversation with you and laugh.
I suspect thats what most posters do on this forum with you anyway.
How on earth do you get that 'The evil tories forced the French to set up a hybrid health system that is now the best in the world' tripe from my post? The issue is that a 'free at the point of service' health system will always get higher loading than one like the French system. The French are struggling to fund theirs but the Tories here think they can promise it and at the same time promise lower taxes than countries like France. The two just do not fit. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 8, 2023 11:22:06 GMT
The evil tories forced the French to set up a hybrid health system that is now the best in the world? Who knew?
If you are going to throw tory bogeymen jibes at anyone who disagrees with your imperfect world vision , then we may as well give up trying to hold a conversation with you and laugh.
I suspect thats what most posters do on this forum with you anyway.
How on earth do you get that 'The evil tories forced the French to set up a hybrid health system that is now the best in the world' tripe from my post? Its a jibe in referrence to earlier in the thread .Where you insinuate i am being brainwashed by the evil tory spin.
explain?
Proof? All systems struggle with funding , some more than others.....
The French system isnt funded just by taxation , so the comparison with the uk systems isnt like for like. Which is my earlier point regarding thier hybrid system and how it is continuously voted better than our solely taxpayer funded system
so you have mentioned continuously , as i have pointed out there are other systems outside of "the two" you keep screaming about.
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Post by Steve on Jan 8, 2023 12:57:12 GMT
If something is free it gets used more than something with an initial charge
The French have a significantly higher debt to GDP ration than us, they're struggling to fund all their government commitments
I don't keep screaming about 'the two' Just pointing out the impossibility (and effective dishonesty) of the Tories stated position
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Post by thomas on Jan 9, 2023 7:46:07 GMT
If something is free it gets used more than something with an initial charge You are catching on steve. With an initial charge , it might help wasters using the nhs for free and overloading it , and make them think twice . All the hypochondriacs ,those having a punch up down the pub saturday night , foreigners and health tourists , that sort of thing.
How many times do you need to be told the French government and taxpayers dont solely fund their health system like the uk and devolved governments?
You do . You are consistently offering up a false choice between the american style and what the uk has.
Again , you mention the uk tories to me. For clarity , im scottish , im not a tory , and dont vote tory . Why keep bringing the tories into the argument as though their supporters are the only alternative view to you on health services?
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Post by Steve on Jan 9, 2023 11:49:05 GMT
Last time I looked the UK government is a Tory one and they set the NHS policy and funding for the vast majority of the UK population, that's why. Maybe you didn't realise this site is ukpoliticsdebate As for your continued misrepresentation of my posts |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 9, 2023 18:00:29 GMT
There is no 'right to strike' without consequence anyway, it's a common misrepresentation of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. An empoyer has always been able to sack striking workers and still is. It occasionally happens. The big problems with this proposal as phrased are threefold: 1: As a monopoly employer the government could try to define 'right to life and livelihoods.' as any of the duties of public employees so in effect denying them the 'right to strike' on penalty of legal action. That would be a breach of article 11 of the ECnHR which isn't going to be repealed anytime soon. 2: This will doing nothing about the real problem in the NHS staffing, the inability to recruit and retain 3: It's not in the 2019 manifesto so has no constitutional protection in the House of Lords that will likely throw it out because of (1). Summary: it's posturing for the 2024 General Election. Very shallow but such often works Steve, you can quote whatever you like. The fact remains that at the moment it is lawful for blue light services to strike. It's a ridiculous situation when emergency services can go on strike. The government are absolutely right to pursue legislation that ensures the public have at least minimum cover. In other civilised countries blue lights are rightly banned from strike action. Btw, in 1978 we stood in for striking firemen who were paid twice what we were being paid, and this was in your neck of the woods. Ah yes the fireman’s strike A drunk lorry driver failed to stop at the red light i stopped at. He hit my mini at 40 with 32 tonne coking coal artic The car rear was crushed flat to the point where the boot was level with the back of the front seat, my seat back was split, the seat shot back slamming my head on the rear seat squabs and holding it the perfect angle for the rear windscreen to shower my face and the mini 850 badge to embed in my nose and lip. Blood petrol and other shit was everywhere Outside, the car was thrown over a hundred feet forward and eight feet into the air as judged by an AA Man standing at a garage at the side of the junction who from where he stood testified to clearly seeing the muddy underside and fuel spraying from the tank as I was thrown into the air clearing traffic on the other road by at least a foot before I smashed down onto the other side of the road and mounted a road sign in the style of Marc Bolan The firefighters at the fire station opposite the garage stood at their picket lines and did duck all I lived because the smashed back seat meant I was lying down as the car piled headlong into the road Saigon on the far side of the road. A fire chief in a red HC Viva with a blue rotating light came out of the fire station, drove through the red light and was rammed in the doors by a twat of a woman who was driving another HC Viva down the A470 Northern Avenue and turned her head to look at the wreckage of my car and I could lip read her saying to her passenger ooh look there’s an accident CRUNCH she went straight into the side of the fire chiefs car full tilt, concertinaing her own. Her passenger was saying something after that but I recall mouthing back at her Ooh Look There’s Another… The Green Goddess came with an army land rover and winch and trailer and another army land river with a Red Cross. He took one look at me and declared I had to be got out pd effinn q as he didn’t like the look of me nor the petrol everywhere and I could have the pain now, or later. I chose later like a bloody fool. He stuck me with morphine which was quite an interesting sensation. I felt totally calm bc and logical inside but was clearly off my face, had he told me I’d have to have something amputated to get me out I’d have laughed taken the saw and done the job for him. As I said, the firemen stood at their picket lines and did fuck all in spite of gallons of petrol and hundreds of gallons I guess of diesel all over the road from three wrecked cars and a shagged diesel tank where he hit a railing. I won’t soon forget that they did that. Yes it was what forty five ? years ago now, December 6th or 7th |
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