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Post by Pacifico on Jan 6, 2023 17:41:37 GMT
No I was being silly expecting a serious answer from you.. They are on strike to get better pay and conditions which will increase recruitment and retention, but you know that.😔 Which has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making. If you die from a lack of ambulance due to government action why is that different from dying due to a lack of an ambulance due to strikes? Either way you are dead. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 7, 2023 8:42:10 GMT
Yes you are. But proper pay and conditions should ensure fewer such deaths in the future.
Those deaths are a result of long term government failures in respect of those services and banning staff from taking action regarding those failures will simply entrench them, not address them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2023 9:36:22 GMT
The hospitals are full and there are not enough doctors and nurses to carry out their duties to a safe level. Patients are in corridors because there are no beds available and they are kept in ambulances because A&Es are full. If you want to blame hospital staff for incompetence you should reassess you information. Well mainly because care homes are palming them off in hospitals because they are short staffed.
Family members aren't prepared to take them in.
Most of the elderly bed blocking patients could leave, the problem is most of them have nowhere to go, so why is that the governments fault?
Maybe we should start blaming care homes, families who wont take responsibility for their elderly relatives, that is why people are waiting in corridors and ambulances don't turn up, hospitals have turned in to rest homes for the elderly.
It depends on whether you think sending elderly patients to unsafe accommodation is a good thing. We pay for a social system with our taxes and NI but the service the Tories are providing is woeful. |
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Post by Handyman on Jan 7, 2023 15:22:35 GMT
Yep, and nurses, teachers etc. Which is why I say that banning industrial action is just going to make the situation worse. I don't know what the answer is , but there is a limit to what the taxpayers can pay or want to pay and to be quite blunt do we actually get good value for our money, sadly we don't on many occasions strikes can and do effect many when they happen some times very badly |
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Post by Steve on Jan 7, 2023 15:53:36 GMT
Yep, and nurses, teachers etc. Which is why I say that banning industrial action is just going to make the situation worse. I don't know what the answer is , but there is a limit to what the taxpayers can pay or want to pay and to be quite blunt do we actually get good value for our money, sadly we don't on many occasions strikes can and do effect many when they happen some times very badly But continuing to erode the real terms wages of public employees is not solution. They'll just leave and fewer will be recruited in the first place. If we can't afford the NHS etc we aspire to have then best to be honest and admit it but of course that's hardly an election winner is it. Awkward truth: you can't have a National Health Service free at the point of service with USA levels of tax take. |
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Post by thomas on Jan 7, 2023 16:00:27 GMT
I don't know what the answer is , but there is a limit to what the taxpayers can pay or want to pay and to be quite blunt do we actually get good value for our money, sadly we don't on many occasions strikes can and do effect many when they happen some times very badly Awkward truth: you can't have a National Health Service free at the point of service with USA levels of tax take. Perhaps your false dichotomy is the problem. The French system is better than either the us or uk , but is funded different to both. |
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Post by sword on Jan 7, 2023 16:04:04 GMT
Once again a extreme Tory Government go further down that road to the Pinochet brand of fascism,what gets me is how easy some people would follow them into that dark night.
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Post by Steve on Jan 7, 2023 16:08:03 GMT
Awkward truth: you can't have a National Health Service free at the point of service with USA levels of tax take. Perhaps your false dichotomy is the problem. The French system is better than either the us or uk , but is funded different to both. But it's not free at the point of service is it. And France has even worse messed up government finances than we do. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 7, 2023 16:08:23 GMT
Once again a extreme Tory Government go further down that road to the Pinochet brand of fascism,what gets me is how easy some people would follow them into that dark night. Hyperbole anyone? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 7, 2023 16:15:35 GMT
I don't know what the answer is , but there is a limit to what the taxpayers can pay or want to pay... And there is a limit to the pay and conditions that workers are willing to endure. Sure, you can ban strikes but you can't stop people from quitting when the pay is no longer worth the aggro. And that's the real problem. As someone else said: They can always get a job in Greggs if they don't like it. Trouble is, lots of them do and I personally know of lots of ex-police officers, nurses and teachers who didn't want to quit their chosen career but felt that they had no other choice. Hell, even doctors no longer want to work in the NHS and we should be looking to address why that is rather than banning workers from airing genuine concerns. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 7, 2023 16:19:34 GMT
Striking in the middle of a ‘ crisis ‘ and pointing to the government probably isnt the best strategy to get public support .
Striking at the same time as the railways workers might not have been a good choice either
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 7, 2023 16:22:29 GMT
I don't know what the answer is , but there is a limit to what the taxpayers can pay or want to pay... And there is a limit to the pay and conditions that workers are willing to endure. Sure, you can ban strikes but you can't stop people from quitting when the pay is no longer worth the aggro. And that's the real problem. As someone else said: They can always get a job in Greggs if they don't like it. Trouble is, lots of them do and I personally know of lots of ex-police officers, nurses and teachers who didn't want to quit their chosen career but felt that they had no other choice. Hell, even doctors no longer want to work in the NHS and we should be looking to address why that is rather than banning workers from airing genuine concerns. Let them quit, I can guarantee you they wont.
The Civil Service and public sector .. let me explain why ..
Defined Benefit pensions (DB), sometimes called Final Salary or Gold-Plated pensions offer the employee a secure income for life and usually increase year on year up to and throughout retirement.
As outlined in legislation, the Pensions Increase to be applied each April is to be based on the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) for the previous September. CPI for September was announced as 10.1% and while it is expected pensions will increase in line with this, it is not guaranteed.
The Civil Service and Public sector workers have one of the most lucrative pension schemes in any employment sector, hence the reason they wont quit, and hence the reason there will never be a shortage of applicants wanting to take jobs in the Civil/Public services.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 7, 2023 16:25:56 GMT
Striking in the middle of a ‘ crisis ‘ and pointing to the government probably isnt the best strategy to get public support . Striking at the same time as the railways workers might not have been a good choice either But this "Crisis" didn't just come out of nowhere: Many public sector workers have already been subject to a decade long pay freeze and that's just not sustainable in the current climate.
Every single public sector in this country is at breaking point. Every single one: Not enough nurses, not enough teachers, not enough care workers, not enough police etc. etc.
And that didn't come out of nowhere - it's been decades in the making. So it's a bit rich for HM Govt to cry foul when people finally have to say "Enough's enough".
This shitness didn't just happen - it was planned, or at least serially mismanaged by successive governments and that's what needs addressing.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 7, 2023 16:28:06 GMT
And there is a limit to the pay and conditions that workers are willing to endure. Sure, you can ban strikes but you can't stop people from quitting when the pay is no longer worth the aggro. And that's the real problem. As someone else said: They can always get a job in Greggs if they don't like it. Trouble is, lots of them do and I personally know of lots of ex-police officers, nurses and teachers who didn't want to quit their chosen career but felt that they had no other choice. Hell, even doctors no longer want to work in the NHS and we should be looking to address why that is rather than banning workers from airing genuine concerns. Let them quit, I can guarantee you they wont.
The Civil Service and public sector .. let me explain why ..
Defined Benefit pensions (DB), sometimes called Final Salary or Gold-Plated pensions offer the employee a secure income for life and usually increase year on year up to and throughout retirement.
As outlined in legislation, the Pensions Increase to be applied each April is to be based on the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) for the previous September. CPI for September was announced as 10.1% and while it is expected pensions will increase in line with this, it is not guaranteed.
The Civil Service and Public sector workers have one of the most lucrative pension schemes in any employment sector, hence the reason they wont quit, and hence the reason there will never be a shortage of applicants wanting to take jobs in the Civil/Public services.
Except that they do and they are quitting. I know plenty of them. Telling people: "You'll get a great pension... in 40 years time" isn't going to make them put up with decades of shit and poor pay in the meantime.
Indeed, many younger public sector workers don't even join the pension these days because they either can't afford it or they just don't see it as worthwhile.
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 7, 2023 16:33:19 GMT
Let them quit, I can guarantee you they wont.
The Civil Service and public sector .. let me explain why ..
Defined Benefit pensions (DB), sometimes called Final Salary or Gold-Plated pensions offer the employee a secure income for life and usually increase year on year up to and throughout retirement.
As outlined in legislation, the Pensions Increase to be applied each April is to be based on the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) for the previous September. CPI for September was announced as 10.1% and while it is expected pensions will increase in line with this, it is not guaranteed.
The Civil Service and Public sector workers have one of the most lucrative pension schemes in any employment sector, hence the reason they wont quit, and hence the reason there will never be a shortage of applicants wanting to take jobs in the Civil/Public services.
Except that they do and they are quitting. I know plenty of them. Telling people: "You'll get a great pension... in 40 years time" isn't going to make them put up with decades of shit and poor pay in the meantime.
Indeed, many younger public sector workers don't even join the pension these days because they either can't afford it or they just don't see it as worthwhile.
Good, well for everyone that quits, there will be at least 4 applicants waiting to take that job. |
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