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Post by sandypine on Jan 2, 2023 8:44:25 GMT
You are aware that the BBC has quotas for on and off screen program makers.. I'm not really arguing for quotas at all, more merely commenting that that is the natural outcome of SandyPine's argument, something that I'm a little surprised at. It rather raised a chuckle when I read it. No hidden agenda from me. It is not the natural outcome of the argument at all. I am at a loss as to how you arrive at that conclusion. Saying we should not have propaganda in any direction is not a case for controlling or limiting any type of marriage. It is a case not to direct/nudge/coerce, call it what you like, people into any one direction. Covid has taught us one thing that government looks very carefully how to nudge the populace into the direction it wishes them to follow and it is all low level stuff. You are obviously fully nudged. and look for anything to hold onto to believe you have not been
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 8:50:00 GMT
impartialitalork today so haven't the time to listen to all that. Whatever point you are trying to make might be better made by typing a few sentences or a paragraph or two for us to read. She claimed that a tory agent was shaping news reports by acting as the arbiter of BBC impartiality Judging by the output, that would not surprise me.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 2, 2023 8:57:58 GMT
LOL!
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Post by andrewbrown on Jan 2, 2023 15:09:03 GMT
I'm not really arguing for quotas at all, more merely commenting that that is the natural outcome of SandyPine's argument, something that I'm a little surprised at. It rather raised a chuckle when I read it. No hidden agenda from me. It is not the natural outcome of the argument at all. I am at a loss as to how you arrive at that conclusion. Saying we should not have propaganda in any direction is not a case for controlling or limiting any type of marriage. It is a case not to direct/nudge/coerce, call it what you like, people into any one direction. Covid has taught us one thing that government looks very carefully how to nudge the populace into the direction it wishes them to follow and it is all low level stuff. You are obviously fully nudged. and look for anything to hold onto to believe you have not been Under represented and over representation only matter if you think that exact replication of numbers matters, hence the only way to achieve that would be quotas. Not only does it not bother me enough that I count them, but tbf it is not unrepresentative of my world. Out of my team of 8, one is in a mixed race marriage and 2 more are products of mixed race marriages. You have yet to explain why they are a bad thing and why they should not be portrayed as such?
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Post by sandypine on Jan 2, 2023 17:11:23 GMT
It is not the natural outcome of the argument at all. I am at a loss as to how you arrive at that conclusion. Saying we should not have propaganda in any direction is not a case for controlling or limiting any type of marriage. It is a case not to direct/nudge/coerce, call it what you like, people into any one direction. Covid has taught us one thing that government looks very carefully how to nudge the populace into the direction it wishes them to follow and it is all low level stuff. You are obviously fully nudged. and look for anything to hold onto to believe you have not been Under represented and over representation only matter if you think that exact replication of numbers matters, hence the only way to achieve that would be quotas. Not only does it not bother me enough that I count them, but tbf it is not unrepresentative of my world. Out of my team of 8, one is in a mixed race marriage and 2 more are products of mixed race marriages. You have yet to explain why they are a bad thing and why they should not be portrayed as such? It is almost as if you only half read what I say. I have not said, that is NOT said, that any marriage of any sort is good bad or indifferent. What I have said, I am saying and continue to say is that the nudging of any population to conform to a particular type of marriage is just as wrong if it was nudging to Aryan couples or it was nudging to mixed race couples. It is not governments' job to direct us in any genetic direction. That always was, has remained, and will continue to remain my view as regards marriages. So to repeat myself almost ad nauseum. Any nudging towards a preferred marriage type as a policy is intrinsically wrong and Eugenics in nature. I have no view as regards to whom one should marry and/or have children with. Which brings us to the present day UK where the mass immigration imposed on us will no doubt increase the number of mixed marriages just from natural selection and that must be seen as a deliberate policy or incredible incompetency. Presenting mixed race marriages significantly over and above the norm in society is a direct effort to nudge through visual acceptance in a specific direction. Nudging is not raw propaganda but it is propaganda all the same and it is that which is not acceptable
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Post by patman post on Jan 2, 2023 17:30:59 GMT
Won’t individuals select who they want to couple/partner with, irrespective of whether they take note of or ignore family, peer or society preferences.
It’s only recently that UK law has allowed same sex liaisons and partnerships even though some religious organisations and societies still do not approve.
Suspecting political interference in the choice advertisers and programme makers have in casting seems paranoid. Both have to please their audiences and buyers to survive, not antagonise them…
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Post by Bentley on Jan 2, 2023 17:39:22 GMT
Won’t individuals select who they want to couple/partner with, irrespective of whether they take note of or ignore family, peer or society preferences. It’s only recently that UK law has allowed same sex liaisons and partnerships even though some religious organisations and societies still do not approve. Suspecting political interference in the choice advertisers and programme makers have in casting seems paranoid. Both have to please their audiences and buyers to survive, not antagonise them… If you think television has no effect on social attitudes then I look forward to you approving a revival of ‘ Curry and Chips ‘, Love thy Neighbour’ ‘ Til death I’d do part ‘ and the ‘black and white minstrel show ‘. I find it amusing that underrepresenting racial groups was a problem until it was white people who complained .
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Post by sandypine on Jan 2, 2023 17:49:40 GMT
Won’t individuals select who they want to couple/partner with, irrespective of whether they take note of or ignore family, peer or society preferences. It’s only recently that UK law has allowed same sex liaisons and partnerships even though some religious organisations and societies still do not approve. Suspecting political interference in the choice advertisers and programme makers have in casting seems paranoid. Both have to please their audiences and buyers to survive, not antagonise them… That is a bit naiive. They also have to have a major eye on claims of discrimination and the equality laws. It is those laws or rather the threat of those laws that brings about over representation. If you believe that people are not affected one whit by the output of TV companies then you are living in a different world. It is precisely why the soaps get on their soapboxes and 'highlight' issues in their storylines and challenging stereotypes is taken very seriously by many groups. If what you say is true then these things would have no effect, but they do, so it is presenting the problems of the real world in the make believe world and along with the dramas and the adverts what is seen on the screen is basically nudging. As I said since Covid we know very well the government has used the advice of many Psychologists to nudge the population to behave in a certain way through presentation on screen. One aspect is that the white man, although about 40% of the UK adult population is a rarity in the advertising world. As regards antagonising them no one seems to care about antagonising the white man, he is relegated to an also ran in the grand scheme and can be branded racist, misogynistic or homophobic etc with ease and ignored if he does wonder what is happening to him in what was some time ago his own country. We can hear the cries of how do you like it whitey, and that is not invented.
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Post by patman post on Jan 2, 2023 17:56:21 GMT
Won’t individuals select who they want to couple/partner with, irrespective of whether they take note of or ignore family, peer or society preferences. It’s only recently that UK law has allowed same sex liaisons and partnerships even though some religious organisations and societies still do not approve. Suspecting political interference in the choice advertisers and programme makers have in casting seems paranoid. Both have to please their audiences and buyers to survive, not antagonise them… If you think television has no effect on social attitudes then I look forward to you approving a revival of ‘ Curry and Chips ‘, Love thy Neighbour’ ‘ Til death I’d do part ‘ and the ‘black and white minstrel show ‘. I find it amusing that underrepresenting racial groups was a problem until it was white people who complained . Aren’t those programmes available on YouTube? If so, I don’t object. They were of their time and (mostly still) amusing. It’s the people who love to get upset on the behalf of others who appear to get upset. Or, perhaps most likely, like those who got the name of Guy Gibson’s dog cut from the Dambusters film, because they don’t like to be reminded of (not always) past attitudes… I don’t think British TV forms social attitude. It informs and portrays, whether it’s parodying women CofE vicars’ successes against the dinosaurs, or making fun of East End Empire Loyalists, I’m happy for me and others to laugh or shudder…
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Post by Bentley on Jan 2, 2023 18:07:19 GMT
If you think television has no effect on social attitudes then I look forward to you approving a revival of ‘ Curry and Chips ‘, Love thy Neighbour’ ‘ Til death I’d do part ‘ and the ‘black and white minstrel show ‘. I find it amusing that underrepresenting racial groups was a problem until it was white people who complained . Aren’t those programmes available on YouTube? If so, I don’t object. They were of their time and (mostly still) amusing. It’s the people who love to get upset on the behalf of others who appear to get upset. Or, perhaps most likely, like those who got the name of Guy Gibson’s dog cut from the Dambusters film, because they don’t like to be reminded of (not always) past attitudes… I don’t think British TV forms social attitude. It informs and portrays, whether it’s parodying women CofE vicars’ successes against the dinosaurs, or making fun of East End Empire Loyalists, I’m happy for me and others to laugh or shudder… I doubt that using YouTube to qualify for your consent is a good thing. Let’s just put it all on Dave eh? I think you are standing Guy Gibsons dog problem on its head . I suspect it was because of the more left leaning worriers who didn’t want to hear a white man call his dog what most black comedians call other black men ( on the telly ) . Nothing to do with white people being reminded about last attitudes. So you don’t mind a lot less black and Asian people on telly then? A lot more whites is fine by you?
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Post by patman post on Jan 2, 2023 18:08:18 GMT
Won’t individuals select who they want to couple/partner with, irrespective of whether they take note of or ignore family, peer or society preferences. It’s only recently that UK law has allowed same sex liaisons and partnerships even though some religious organisations and societies still do not approve. Suspecting political interference in the choice advertisers and programme makers have in casting seems paranoid. Both have to please their audiences and buyers to survive, not antagonise them… That is a bit naiive. They also have to have a major eye on claims of discrimination and the equality laws. It is those laws or rather the threat of those laws that brings about over representation. If you believe that people are not affected one whit by the output of TV companies then you are living in a different world. It is precisely why the soaps get on their soapboxes and 'highlight' issues in their storylines and challenging stereotypes is taken very seriously by many groups. If what you say is true then these things would have no effect, but they do, so it is presenting the problems of the real world in the make believe world and along with the dramas and the adverts what is seen on the screen is basically nudging. As I said since Covid we know very well the government has used the advice of many Psychologists to nudge the population to behave in a certain way through presentation on screen. One aspect is that the white man, although about 40% of the UK adult population is a rarity in the advertising world. As regards antagonising them no one seems to care about antagonising the white man, he is relegated to an also ran in the grand scheme and can be branded racist, misogynistic or homophobic etc with ease and ignored if he does wonder what is happening to him in what was some time ago his own country. We can hear the cries of how do you like it whitey, and that is not invented. Apologies, but what you post makes me believe even more firmly that suspecting political interference in the choice advertisers and programme makers have in casting seems paranoid. This country is 80% White — mostly the same White stock that put a quarter of the world’s population under the cosh and often relegated other peoples to second class citizens in their own countries. Do you actually believed that same White stock is actively diminishing the worth of their own? If so, let’s have a bit — bring it on…
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Post by Bentley on Jan 2, 2023 18:16:55 GMT
“ WHITE STOCK that put a quarter of the world’s population under the cosh and often relegated other peoples to second class citizens in their own countries” That’s some shoulder chip. You need therapy for that one .
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Post by sandypine on Jan 2, 2023 18:16:57 GMT
That is a bit naiive. They also have to have a major eye on claims of discrimination and the equality laws. It is those laws or rather the threat of those laws that brings about over representation. If you believe that people are not affected one whit by the output of TV companies then you are living in a different world. It is precisely why the soaps get on their soapboxes and 'highlight' issues in their storylines and challenging stereotypes is taken very seriously by many groups. If what you say is true then these things would have no effect, but they do, so it is presenting the problems of the real world in the make believe world and along with the dramas and the adverts what is seen on the screen is basically nudging. As I said since Covid we know very well the government has used the advice of many Psychologists to nudge the population to behave in a certain way through presentation on screen. One aspect is that the white man, although about 40% of the UK adult population is a rarity in the advertising world. As regards antagonising them no one seems to care about antagonising the white man, he is relegated to an also ran in the grand scheme and can be branded racist, misogynistic or homophobic etc with ease and ignored if he does wonder what is happening to him in what was some time ago his own country. We can hear the cries of how do you like it whitey, and that is not invented. Apologies, but what you post makes me believe even more firmly that suspecting political interference in the choice advertisers and programme makers have in casting seems paranoid. This country is 80% White — mostly the same White stock that put a quarter of the world’s population under the cosh and often relegated other peoples to second class citizens in their own countries. Do you actually believed that same White stock is actively diminishing the worth of their own? If so, let’s have a bit — bring it on… Which kind of confirms my last comment. You are assuming 'white stock' is some type of continuous and amorphous entity only defined by its whiteness but it is separated along many lines with people in the group seeking advantage and by others seeking advantage. Currently the white guilt is winning and being callously used by many of all races to reconfigure the demographics of the British Isles. We accepted this in the name of tolerance, understanding and fairness but we can see that extending this out was a forlorn hope and realistically it will end in tears one way or another.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 2, 2023 18:58:34 GMT
“ WHITE STOCK that put a quarter of the world’s population under the cosh and often relegated other peoples to second class citizens in their own countries” That’s some shoulder chip. You need therapy for that one . It’s a variation on the ‘You were there so now we’re here’ argument frequently put forward by former colonial subjects and their descendants as the rationale for their continuing presence amongst us. It’s often coupled in argumentation with the closely-related ‘You exploited us then so now you owe us big-time’ which often accompanies claims-making for more gibs, better compo or reparamarations.
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Post by Bentley on Jan 2, 2023 19:04:48 GMT
“ WHITE STOCK that put a quarter of the world’s population under the cosh and often relegated other peoples to second class citizens in their own countries” That’s some shoulder chip. You need therapy for that one . It’s a variation on the ‘You were there so now we’re here’ argument frequently put forward by former colonial subjects and their descendants as the rationale for their continuing presence amongst us. It’s often coupled in argumentation with the closely-related ‘You exploited us then so now you owe us big-time’ which often accompanies claims-making for more gibs, better compo or reparamarations. A Scot stole my Dads kitbag in 1941. I need at least 50 quid for that .
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