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Post by Orac on Oct 14, 2022 19:17:46 GMT
I'm not moaning. I'm simply offering an opinion as to why she doesn't have the support of her MPs. I'm just offering a counter-opinion. We both agree there is a problem. My view is they set off an establishment trip wire. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 14, 2022 19:20:39 GMT
Who's really running the country? As some guy claimed in a TV interview - it isn't the Governments, it's Goldman Sachs. Seems about right. If they do replace Truss we should just ask the Markets, the IMF and the WEF who they want and go with that. Embrace the new world order.. That's precisely what it looks like. Truss should tell the parliamentary conservative party in no uncertain terms to either backs her, or she will call an election. The thought of losing their seats and an £84k salary plus generous pension and perks, would I'm sure focus back bench minds. |
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Post by B0ycey on Oct 14, 2022 19:25:34 GMT
Seems about right. If they do replace Truss we should just ask the Markets, the IMF and the WEF who they want and go with that. Embrace the new world order.. That's precisely what it looks like. Truss should tell the parliamentary conservative party in no uncertain terms to either backs her, or she will call an election. The thought of losing their seats and an £84k salary plus generous pension and perks, would I'm sure focus back bench minds. She can't call an election. Or not without MP support. An election needs 2/3rds parliamentary approval. In many ways MPs call the shots. They vote on her policies and as May would testify, they can be a bugger when they work against you in groups. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 14, 2022 19:40:00 GMT
That's precisely what it looks like. Truss should tell the parliamentary conservative party in no uncertain terms to either backs her, or she will call an election. The thought of losing their seats and an £84k salary plus generous pension and perks, would I'm sure focus back bench minds. She can't call an election. Or not without MP support. An election needs 2/3rds parliamentary approval. In many ways MPs call the shots. They vote on her policies and as May would testify, they can be a bugger when they work against you in groups. I will be corrected, but I was under the impression the 2/3rds or 430 ish rule changed when the FTPA was repealed? |
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 14, 2022 20:48:42 GMT
I think the GE is called by the government, not by Parliament.
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 14, 2022 21:14:47 GMT
I think the GE is called by the government, not by Parliament. Correct, since the dissolution of the fixed term parliament act in July 2022, the prime minister can call a general election at any time. Indeed, Nadine Dorries has said Liz Truss should call a snap election. Tbh I don't want a snap election, it's the last thing we need. But, if the PCP try to replace Truss with Sunak I absolutely want her to publicly say, back me or I'll call a general election. |
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Post by Cartertonian on Oct 16, 2022 11:47:01 GMT
Red Rackham wrote
Strange times indeed, but not inexplicable. Basic political theory suggests that the genuine, unswayable adherents to left or right ideologies sit on the very outer 10% of their respective ends of the political spectrum and the battleground for votes is with the eighty percent in the middle who can be swayed.
What you're calling classic centre right conservatism here is, in fact, the sort of right wing ideology that sits not in the centre at all, but in that 10% fringe just as classic socialism sits at the other end.
The classic centre right conservatives were driven out of the party in the run up to Boris' tenure and so it was painfully ironic to hear Jeremy Hunt talk only yesterday of 'compassionate conservatism'. Let's remember that this is politics, not reality, and he and his cabinet colleagues haven't got a compassionate bone in their bodies, but they know that's what they have to claim in public to win votes.
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Post by petenz on Oct 16, 2022 12:02:17 GMT
At least we now know what the Tories under Truss actually stand for. For too long, both sides have been trying to squeeze onto the fence in the middle.
Now if only Labour would tell everyone what they are for instead of only what they're against, the voters can make a better informed choice at the next election.
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Post by colbops on Oct 16, 2022 12:04:50 GMT
At least we now know what the Tories under Truss actually stand for You might do but, I haven't the foggiest. Perhaps you could elaborate? |
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Post by wapentake on Oct 16, 2022 12:14:13 GMT
Who is really running the show?
Not what you’d call a predictable critic of the Tory party and makes for an interesting and accurate viewpoint of both Truss and who is really running the show.
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Post by petenz on Oct 16, 2022 12:38:02 GMT
At least we now know what the Tories under Truss actually stand for You might do but, I haven't the foggiest. Perhaps you could elaborate? Truss whipped off the mask with her mini-budget proposing to reward the already well-to-do at the expense of everyone else. The fact that she was forced to u-turn was not, I believe, that the rest of her party disagreed (leaving aside the other external pressures) but rather that they became frightened of the personal consequences to them come the next election. They now have Jeremy Hunt trying to get the toothpaste back in tube and replace the mask (apologies for all the metaphors). The Tories will no doubt revert to the tried and tested 'promise them anything and we'll find an excuse not to deliver once we're in'. If only Labour would also come-out of the closet and begin to represent the left and leave the centre clear for others, the voter might be able to make a better choice. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 16, 2022 12:50:01 GMT
What you're calling classic centre right conservatism here is, in fact, the sort of right wing ideology that sits not in the centre at all, but in that 10% fringe just as classic socialism sits at the other end. It doesn't surprise me that people cannot see the wood for trees presently - the media are playing one note and one note only The old foolish 'beggar they neighbor'left arguments are being wheeled out and repeated - ie 'tax cuts for the wealthy' and 'tax cuts using borrowed money', completely ignoring the fact that government is always in a state of borrowing and so the latter standard leads to notion that taxes can only ever be raised and the former ignores entirely the rational (albeit politically controversial) basis for such tax cuts, as if it doesn't exist at all. You could in fact argue that this was a compromise budget - the tax cuts were to stimulate investment, but rather than also going at the public sector with a chain saw and flame thrower (probably the proper and responsible course of action), it was decided that another 'kick the can down the road' round of borrowing would be employed. A compromise between conservative and soft left policies? |
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Post by Orac on Oct 16, 2022 13:00:52 GMT
Not what you’d call a predictable critic of the Tory party and makes for an interesting and accurate viewpoint of both Truss and who is really running the show. I'll give it one thing, it's a nicely simple theory. However, i'm a bit at a loss as to why these gigantically influential people, who own the hedge funds that own the media etc, would have put so much effort into securing these cuts and then either put effort into having them revoked and stood idly by while they were revoked. You have to admit, it's a bit of conundrum. You would have thought a politician who was simply doing the bidding of the most influential class on the planet would be afforded a rather more comfortable ride. |
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Post by vlk on Oct 16, 2022 13:35:21 GMT
The impression one gets of Truss makes it not such a terrible thought that there's someone else behind the scenes pulling the strings and running the show.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 15:33:52 GMT
Who is really running the show? Not what you’d call a predictable critic of the Tory party and makes for an interesting and accurate viewpoint of both Truss and who is really running the show. Thanks very much for posting this.
Am a big fan of Oborne.
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