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Post by sandypine on Dec 12, 2022 9:11:51 GMT
In order to make the law you suggested they would have to revoke the 72 act that granted that power to some other authority Okay, I'll make one last attempt. Who would have 'to revoke the 72 act'? The answer is Parliament. And there were no limits on Parliament's right to revoke the '72 Act. Nobody on earth had the legal power to stop Parliament revoking the '72 Act at any time it wanted over the prolonged period the UK was a member of the EU. So, that means that EU law only applied in the UK because Parliament allowed it to apply. EU law depended entirely on the permission and consent of Parliament to exist and to continue to exist in the UK. Parliament could have repealed the '72 that at the drop of a hat and nobody could have stopped it. You know what that means, don't you? That's right, it means Parliament was always sovereign. Parliament is bound by previous legislation until it either revokes or supercedes that legislation. The fact that to revoke that legislation and to leave teh EU took some 4 and half years indicates that the process was designed to be as binding on parliament as possible. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 12:06:08 GMT
Which brings us neatly back to the begining. Why did John Major refuse to allow a referendum when he handed the UK to the EU? Answers on a postcard kids.  Did he ever offer one? What makes you think that if he had offered one that Brexit would have happened back then? There was much more opportunity to mislead the public on the likes of immigration and the plight of asylum seekers for instance in 2016. Of course he [Major] didn't 'offer' us a referendum on joining the EU! Honestly I sometimes wonder whether you people have been on this planet for more than five minutes. Major knew the British electorate were Eurosceptic, if this has come as a shock, and I suspect it might have, I suggest you ZG & Steve, read up on your subject before bothering me again. FFS Euromaniacs who agree with the way we were handed to the EU but whinge about the way we left should in my opinion do the decent thing and purchase a one way ticket to your beloved Belgium. Do us all a favour. |
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Post by Vinny on Dec 12, 2022 12:08:14 GMT
There were no credible anti Maastricht options in 1992.
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 12:14:22 GMT
Which brings us neatly back to the begining. Why did John Major refuse to allow a referendum when he handed the UK to the EU? Answers on a postcard kids. And why Boris Johnson refused us a referendum on re-joining. What! FFS this is akin to banging you're head off a hard surface. The reason Boris didn't hold a referendum on joining the EU, is oddly enough because we have just had a referendum in which the majority voted to leave. I accept that as a die hard remainiac you will advocate the EU policy of endless referendums until the desired result is achieved. I say again, I'm sure you would be happier if you moved to your beloved Belgium. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 12:16:28 GMT
Which brings us neatly back to the begining. Why did John Major refuse to allow a referendum when he handed the UK to the EU? Answers on a postcard kids. because it would have been a waste of time, bit like reading your posts LOL, excellent schoolboy retort. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 12, 2022 12:47:12 GMT
Did he ever offer one? What makes you think that if he had offered one that Brexit would have happened back then? There was much more opportunity to mislead the public on the likes of immigration and the plight of asylum seekers for instance in 2016. Of course he [Major] didn't 'offer' us a referendum on joining the EU! Honestly I sometimes wonder whether you people have been on this planet for more than five minutes. Major knew the British electorate were Eurosceptic, if this has come as a shock, and I suspect it might have, I suggest you ZG & Steve, read up on your subject before bothering me again. FFS Euromaniacs who agree with the way we were handed to the EU but whinge about the way we left should in my opinion do the decent thing and purchase a one way ticket to your beloved Belgium. Do us all a favour. Despite the lies and the insinuated lies by the leave brigade, leave won by a smaller margin than Farage would have accepted if the vote had gone the other way. There would have been far less backing for Leave in 1992 (no mass influx of asylum seekers for one) so IMO Leave would have lost in 1992 and the point of discussing 1992 in meaningless. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 13:00:54 GMT
Of course he [Major] didn't 'offer' us a referendum on joining the EU! Honestly I sometimes wonder whether you people have been on this planet for more than five minutes. Major knew the British electorate were Eurosceptic, if this has come as a shock, and I suspect it might have, I suggest you ZG & Steve, read up on your subject before bothering me again. FFS Euromaniacs who agree with the way we were handed to the EU but whinge about the way we left should in my opinion do the decent thing and purchase a one way ticket to your beloved Belgium. Do us all a favour. Despite the lies and the insinuated lies by the leave brigade, leave won by a smaller margin than Farage would have accepted if the vote had gone the other way. There would have been far less backing for Leave in 1992 (no mass influx of asylum seekers for one) so IMO Leave would have lost in 1992 and the point of discussing 1992 in meaningless. I suppose you realise that when you refer to 'the leave brigade' you are actually referring to the majority. Not that you lot are interested in that. As far as you're concerned 52% is far too small a majority. But 48% isn't, lol, get in the bin. |
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Post by Toreador on Dec 12, 2022 13:15:17 GMT
Of course he [Major] didn't 'offer' us a referendum on joining the EU! Honestly I sometimes wonder whether you people have been on this planet for more than five minutes. Major knew the British electorate were Eurosceptic, if this has come as a shock, and I suspect it might have, I suggest you ZG & Steve, read up on your subject before bothering me again. FFS Euromaniacs who agree with the way we were handed to the EU but whinge about the way we left should in my opinion do the decent thing and purchase a one way ticket to your beloved Belgium. Do us all a favour. Despite the lies and the insinuated lies by the leave brigade, leave won by a smaller margin than Farage would have accepted if the vote had gone the other way. There would have been far less backing for Leave in 1992 (no mass influx of asylum seekers for one) so IMO Leave would have lost in 1992 and the point of discussing 1992 in meaningless. Hahaha you are a cad. Major was dead lucky in that he was able to call a general election in 1992 since it was he who entered the ERM in 1990 and though the signs of ERM failure were already emerging it wasn't until some months later that the crunch came; had the election come nearer that later time, the Tories would have been humiliated regardless of other factors and they would have deserverd it. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 12, 2022 13:28:45 GMT
Despite the lies and the insinuated lies by the leave brigade, leave won by a smaller margin than Farage would have accepted if the vote had gone the other way. There would have been far less backing for Leave in 1992 (no mass influx of asylum seekers for one) so IMO Leave would have lost in 1992 and the point of discussing 1992 in meaningless. Hahaha you are a cad. Major was dead lucky in that he was able to call a general election in 1992 since it was he who entered the ERM in 1990 and though the signs of ERM failure were already emerging it wasn't until some months later that the crunch came; had the election come nearer that later time, the Tories would have been humiliated regardless of other factors and they would have deserverd it. I'm too honest to be a cad. Both Parties called for joining the ERM, it was a bad move. Major's error was to stay in the ERM too long. Maybe he thought that leaving the ERM earlier would have angered the Remain side of the electorate, who knows? Either way it doesn't alter the differences between 1992 and 2016 that I posted earlier. |
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Post by dappy on Dec 12, 2022 14:06:32 GMT
11 pages now of this nonsense.
We live in a parliamentary democracy.
We elect representatives
They then decide UK policy
Today in parliament they are debating the trade (Australia and New Zealand bill). We will not have a referendum on it, it wasn't in any parties manifesto - that doesn't matter. Its not how we run our country.
Surely this is not hard to understand.
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 12, 2022 14:31:26 GMT
11 pages now of this nonsense. And yet, you're still here lol. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 12, 2022 14:40:54 GMT
Okay, I'll make one last attempt. Who would have 'to revoke the 72 act'? The answer is Parliament. And there were no limits on Parliament's right to revoke the '72 Act. Nobody on earth had the legal power to stop Parliament revoking the '72 Act at any time it wanted over the prolonged period the UK was a member of the EU. So, that means that EU law only applied in the UK because Parliament allowed it to apply. EU law depended entirely on the permission and consent of Parliament to exist and to continue to exist in the UK. Parliament could have repealed the '72 that at the drop of a hat and nobody could have stopped it. You know what that means, don't you? That's right, it means Parliament was always sovereign. Parliament is bound by previous legislation until it either revokes or supercedes that legislation. The fact that to revoke that legislation and to leave teh EU took some 4 and half years indicates that the process was designed to be as binding on parliament as possible. It took a long time to leave the EU because Parliament is sovereign, which is exactly the point in issue. Thanks for making my argument for me, Sandy. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 12, 2022 15:13:24 GMT
Parliament is bound by previous legislation until it either revokes or supercedes that legislation. The fact that to revoke that legislation and to leave teh EU took some 4 and half years indicates that the process was designed to be as binding on parliament as possible. It took a long time to leave the EU because Parliament is sovereign, which is exactly the point in issue. Thanks for making my argument for me, Sandy. Only after revoking the 1972 act which allowed it to progress to regain all the sovereignty it ceded to the EU. I may have missed it but do you have definition of sovereignty? |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 12, 2022 15:17:39 GMT
It took a long time to leave the EU because Parliament is sovereign, which is exactly the point in issue. Thanks for making my argument for me, Sandy. Only after revoking the 1972 act which allowed it to progress to regain all the sovereignty it ceded to the EU. I may have missed it but do you have definition of sovereignty? The sovereign is the law maker. EU regulations were applied in the UK because the Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, said they were to be applied in 1972. They continued to be applied on sufferance of Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, until Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, repealed the 1972 Act. If Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, wished to repeal the 1972 Act at any time during EU membership, it could have done so, because, you've guessed it, it was sovereign. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 12, 2022 15:39:31 GMT
Only after revoking the 1972 act which allowed it to progress to regain all the sovereignty it ceded to the EU. I may have missed it but do you have definition of sovereignty? The sovereign is the law maker. EU regulations were applied in the UK because the Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, said they were to be applied in 1972. They continued to be applied on sufferance of Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, until Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, repealed the 1972 Act. If Parliament, the sovereign law-maker, wished to repeal the 1972 Act at any time during EU membership, it could have done so, because, you've guessed it, it was sovereign. That was a long winded covering all bases definition. It is clear that the 1972 act ceded sovereignty to a different power over which the electorate, who are the sovereign power over parliament and lend that sovereignty to parliament, and it was the ceding of that sovereignty to a power over which less direct accountability could be exercised by the electorate which was the long term undoing of the EU dream. At no point before joining did the British sovereign electorate allow the ceding of their sovereignty to a foreign power in a direct vote, |
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