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Post by see2 on Dec 26, 2022 11:39:23 GMT
You have made yourself out as a two faced liar, with a huge does of arrogance thrown in ^^ So you get the response you have earned. Its Christmas. I know, but he decided to start it with a lie. If he was man enough to apologise for that in the spirit of Christmas there would have been no problem, instead of that he chose to hide behind the fact that it is Christmas. I am far too realistic to be taken in by his nonsense. He didn't spoil my Christmas and that's how it should be for me.
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Post by sheepy on Dec 26, 2022 11:45:52 GMT
Well your true colours are showing through. Merry Christmas You started it all in the first place by lying about me being an extremist. A soft thatcherite who doesnt even know it, with the same thatcherite fear of socialism and emotional need to see it as extremist. Even though it used to be mainstream in your own party. So either your own party used to be an extremist party or you are moving the goalposts in an attempt to establish a false narrative. Everyone can see this. You are fooling no one. Incidentally, your lack of Christmas charity and goodwill has been duly noted, and probably not just by me. In political terms you are as much of an extremist as Corbyn, not as I stated very early on, a far-left extremist. After using Thatcher as a weapon with which to attack the moderates at the center-LEFT of politics, you try to make out that she was not an extremist. That just showed your ability to lie to yourself in your false attempt to hide your Corbyn backing extremism. IMO you need to drop your arrogance and take a long deep look at yourself. No he didn't he stated his opinion and thought being Christmas you might accept he had a point, but then he thought he might overcome your psychology and arrogance, bigger fool him. Although as he has seen it all before when Blairites get a sniff of a chance at power they become full of themselves. So another lesson not quite learnt.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2022 12:00:25 GMT
Well your true colours are showing through. Merry Christmas You started it all in the first place by lying about me being an extremist. A soft thatcherite who doesnt even know it, with the same thatcherite fear of socialism and emotional need to see it as extremist. Even though it used to be mainstream in your own party. So either your own party used to be an extremist party or you are moving the goalposts in an attempt to establish a false narrative. Everyone can see this. You are fooling no one. Incidentally, your lack of Christmas charity and goodwill has been duly noted, and probably not just by me. In political terms you are as much of an extremist as Corbyn, not as I stated very early on, a far-left extremist. After using Thatcher as a weapon with which to attack the moderates at the center-LEFT of politics, you try to make out that she was not an extremist. That just showed your ability to lie to yourself in your false attempt to hide your Corbyn backing extremism. IMO you need to drop your arrogance and take a long deep look at yourself. You call yourself left yet you hate socialism. And you yourself of course are a fine one to talk about arrogance, lol. And as it happens I am far less dogmatic than Corbyn and held true to my values long before he ever came on the scene. But neither he nor I are extremists, the lie about either of us being antisemites notwithstanding. As I have pointed out to you repeatedly, we - Corbyn and I - occupy positions that were once mainstream in your party. It therefore follows that if we are extremists now, your party must have been an extremist party then. Which would surely be a laughable contention, but inherent to your flawed logic. When all you are doing in reality is shifting the goalposts to establish a false narrative, one that paints those to the left of you as extremists, an utterly false and dishonest label seen as such by nearly everybody. Yet you call me a liar for recognising the fact that you Blairites have bought into whole swathes of thatcherite economic policy. You just want to be a bit more socially nicer with it.. In simple terms you call me an extremist for believing in things that the Labour party used to believe in. Therefore by your very own logic you must believe that Labour used to be an extremist party or else you must be consciously trying to move the goalposts to establish a false narrative. In the light of which it is a bit rich you calling me or anyone else arrogant Now go and enjoy the rest of your Christmas because I wish you a happy one, however much you might be too obviously mean-spirited to return the favour The only thing you seem to know about the Christmas spirit is the stuff that comes in bottles.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2022 12:07:06 GMT
I know, but he decided to start it with a lie. If he was man enough to apologise for that in the spirit of Christmas there would have been no problem, instead of that he chose to hide behind the fact that it is Christmas. I am far too realistic to be taken in by his nonsense. He didn't spoil my Christmas and that's how it should be for me. I've yet to hear your apology for starting it all with the lie that I am an extremist. When you are prepared to accept that I am not instead of continuing your unsuccessful attempt to propagate that lie, then I will be more receptive to your objections in regards to the way I interpret you. You cannot reasonably keep lying about me whilst simultaneously demanding apologies for supposed inaccuracies by me about you. Truth and justice is never a one way street.
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Post by andrewbrown on Dec 26, 2022 13:01:34 GMT
Whether someone's political outlook makes them an extremist or not is an opinion, not a fact. Therefore to describe someone as an extremist cannot be a "lie", but is simply an opinion that one is free to subscribe to or not. I don't understand why two of the more articulate members of the forum are spending pages bickering over the point. Totally pointless.
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Post by Toreador on Dec 26, 2022 17:08:50 GMT
Whether someone's political outlook makes them an extremist or not is an opinion, not a fact. Therefore to describe someone as an extremist cannot be a "lie", but is simply an opinion that one is free to subscribe to or not. I don't understand why two of the more articulate members of the forum are spending pages bickering over the point. Totally pointless. Why are you bickering about two people bickering?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2022 18:20:20 GMT
Whether someone's political outlook makes them an extremist or not is an opinion, not a fact. Therefore to describe someone as an extremist cannot be a "lie", but is simply an opinion that one is free to subscribe to or not. I don't understand why two of the more articulate members of the forum are spending pages bickering over the point. Totally pointless. Because I regard labelling me as an extremist to be a blatant lie and not just a matter of opinion. Here is a dictionary definition of "extremist".... a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action
To accuse me of that is a blatant lie. It is a total distortion and a slur. And your contribution only exacerbates the situation. Ignore it and eventually he'll either get bored or I will just tell him to fuck off cos I am not interested anymore. But that moment will arrive when he or I want it to, not at your dictation.
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Post by see2 on Dec 26, 2022 20:30:30 GMT
In political terms you are as much of an extremist as Corbyn, not as I stated very early on, a far-left extremist. After using Thatcher as a weapon with which to attack the moderates at the center-LEFT of politics, you try to make out that she was not an extremist. That just showed your ability to lie to yourself in your false attempt to hide your Corbyn backing extremism. IMO you need to drop your arrogance and take a long deep look at yourself. You call yourself left yet you hate socialism. You start with a lie, so there was no point in me reading the rest.
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Post by see2 on Dec 26, 2022 20:38:40 GMT
Whether someone's political outlook makes them an extremist or not is an opinion, not a fact. Therefore to describe someone as an extremist cannot be a "lie", but is simply an opinion that one is free to subscribe to or not. I don't understand why two of the more articulate members of the forum are spending pages bickering over the point. Totally pointless. I have made it clear to him that I have not referred to him as a far-left extremist. That srb7677 / Corbyn supporter is more extreme than New Labour is a fact. The difference between a Corbyn supporter and a Blair supporter is what our set to is about.
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Post by see2 on Dec 26, 2022 20:45:29 GMT
I know, but he decided to start it with a lie. If he was man enough to apologise for that in the spirit of Christmas there would have been no problem, instead of that he chose to hide behind the fact that it is Christmas. I am far too realistic to be taken in by his nonsense. He didn't spoil my Christmas and that's how it should be for me. I've yet to hear your apology for starting it all with the lie that I am an extremist. When you are prepared to accept that I am not instead of continuing your unsuccessful attempt to propagate that lie, then I will be more receptive to your objections in regards to the way I interpret you. You cannot reasonably keep lying about me whilst simultaneously demanding apologies for supposed inaccuracies by me about you. Truth and justice is never a one way street. I've to hear your apology for starting it all with you attack on the moderates in the Labour Party. You have proved your extremism with your attacks on the Moderates.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 0:31:45 GMT
Whether someone's political outlook makes them an extremist or not is an opinion, not a fact. Therefore to describe someone as an extremist cannot be a "lie", but is simply an opinion that one is free to subscribe to or not. I don't understand why two of the more articulate members of the forum are spending pages bickering over the point. Totally pointless. I have made it clear to him that I have not referred to him as a far-left extremist. That srb7677 / Corbyn supporter is more extreme than New Labour is a fact. The difference between a Corbyn supporter and a Blair supporter is what our set to is about. You simply call me an extremist when I am not. You have also called Thatcher and Corbyn extremists and appear to view anyone who is not near the centre as an extremist. That is an abuse of the English language and blatantly dishonest.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 0:38:36 GMT
I've yet to hear your apology for starting it all with the lie that I am an extremist. When you are prepared to accept that I am not instead of continuing your unsuccessful attempt to propagate that lie, then I will be more receptive to your objections in regards to the way I interpret you. You cannot reasonably keep lying about me whilst simultaneously demanding apologies for supposed inaccuracies by me about you. Truth and justice is never a one way street. I've to hear your apology for starting it all with you attack on the moderates in the Labour Party. You have proved your extremism with your attacks on the Moderates. Bore off. Your lot are anything but moderate half of the time. More abuse of the English language. And yes I am critical of party centrists and Blairites, as are many others. Being critical of centrists is not a definition of extremism. It is just another way of you saying I need to be on the same page as you politically because if I criticise your politics I must be an extremist. Which is the blatant lie you started with. I will not apologise for opposing Blairism. It is my democratic right and not a license for you to invent lies about me. You pretend lefty thatcherite. lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2022 1:00:04 GMT
I have made it clear to him that I have not referred to him as a far-left extremist. That srb7677 / Corbyn supporter is more extreme than New Labour is a fact. The difference between a Corbyn supporter and a Blair supporter is what our set to is about. You simply call me an extremist when I am not. You have also called Thatcher and Corbyn extremists and appear to view anyone who is not near the centre as an extremist. That is an abuse of the English language and blatantly dishonest. I think the reason why they hate socialism (old school) is because modern western social-ism is financed by corporate fat cats. They look upon the old socialist economic model as obsolete, and that socialism today is nothing more than a bunch of crafted propaganda slogans to control people with.
IMO, none was more extremist than Tony Blair's New Labour - they corrupted the left and right of politics, which is still ongoing.
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 27, 2022 2:38:11 GMT
Perhaps the politicians aren't quite as dumb as you appear to think, and there are good reasons why the 'simple' just walk away hasn't happened. I don’t buy that at all. Fact is Cameron only put up the offer as a carrot to be rid of the Clegg consortium who were of course dyed in the wool federalists and have been from day one. Cameron clearly felt he would be going over to tell the EU we were staying in on his ‘revised’ terms so they could count on continuing to milk us dry The reality of the Friday morning hit him like a brick and he ran off. The woman we got as a replacement was a joke. The situation we are in is down to the fact no one in the government or the opposition wanted to implement the will of the people. Which is why they were both happy to use Cleggs Zombification of parliament in his five year term bill to screw the right of the PM to take the issue to the people. It would have been so much easier uf the 2014 Scottish indyref has gone the other way. Breaking the UK into two countries would have seen us forcibly ejected as Barosso pointed out, and the 2014 view of the people was far more eurosceptic than 52/48 and we wouldn’t have needed to bother with the Scottish Poison Dwarf.
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Post by see2 on Dec 27, 2022 8:05:54 GMT
Whether someone's political outlook makes them an extremist or not is an opinion, not a fact. Therefore to describe someone as an extremist cannot be a "lie", but is simply an opinion that one is free to subscribe to or not. I don't understand why two of the more articulate members of the forum are spending pages bickering over the point. Totally pointless. Because I regard labelling me as an extremist to be a blatant lie and not just a matter of opinion. Here is a dictionary definition of "extremist".... a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action
To accuse me of that is a blatant lie. It is a total distortion and a slur. And your contribution only exacerbates the situation. Ignore it and eventually he'll either get bored or I will just tell him to fuck off cos I am not interested anymore. But that moment will arrive when he or I want it to, not at your dictation. As a Corbyn supporter who spends so much of your time denigrating the moderates in the Labour Party along with your distortions of my posts and the lies you post about me, you have proved yourself to be both an extremist and a liar.
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