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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2024 14:36:51 GMT
I have spent the last five years telling everyone that Starmer and those around him were proven liars, willing to say whatever will get them elected and do something very different once in power. They did that to the party membership in the last leadership election. But many gave him a free pass because they approved of him lying to us and breaking the pledges he made to us. I have spent the last five years telling anyone who will listen, that a liar is a liar, regardless of whether you approve or not. And that they are equally capable of lying to the rest of you to get elected, then breaking promises they never even meant once in office. And so it is proving. I am probably one of the least surprised members of this forum at their obvious lies and broken promises.
Their modus operandi is to say what will win them the vote, then cite new information or changed circumstances to break their pledges once in place in the name of pragmatism. I have seen all this before inside the party. I always inwardly chuckled at the naivete and gullibility of those who hailed Starmer as a man of integrity, lol. In spite of him having clearly lied to his own membership to get where he was. lol
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 3, 2024 14:37:47 GMT
I think we in this country have seen a big decline in standards. There were far more capable politicians in the 1980s than we have in the current lot.
Lying is the option for those who can't achieve it.
and worse
Define standards in the context of your post . Not interested in random youtube videos . The video was about her boss and the criminalisation of speech. I thought you might like it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2024 14:44:27 GMT
Most of us on this site knew Labour were lying from the get-go, so it came as no surprise to us using the 'I was 'wrong' routine as a cop out for telling barefaced lies. The shock horror of all those who were naive enough to believe their lies and vote for them comes as no surprise to us, now the thing is what are these outraged people going to do about it now ... let the away with it? I am afraid it is too late. They have been gifted such a massive majority by the electorate that in parliament they are virtually untouchable until the next election. For better or worse we are stuck with them for the next four or five years. Yes we can vote against their councillors in local elections. The Scots and Welsh can vote against them in their next assembly elections. But the occasional byelection defeat in Westminster is barely going to dent their majority. The reality is we are stuck with them. Though I take solace from the fact that at least they are better than the Tories. Which is a very low bar to jump over. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 3, 2024 14:54:42 GMT
Most of us on this site knew Labour were lying from the get-go, so it came as no surprise to us using the 'I was 'wrong' routine as a cop out for telling barefaced lies. The shock horror of all those who were naive enough to believe their lies and vote for them comes as no surprise to us, now the thing is what are these outraged people going to do about it now ... let the away with it? I am afraid it is too late. They have been gifted such a massive majority by the electorate that in parliament they are virtually untouchable until the next election. For better or worse we are stuck with them for the next four or five years. Yes we can vote against their councillors in local elections. The Scots and Welsh can vote against them in their next assembly elections. But the occasional byelection defeat in Westminster is barely going to dent their majority. The reality is we are stuck with them. Though I take solace from the fact that at least they are better than the Tories. Which is a very low bar to jump over. Well I suppose that is the stark reality, however it does beggar belief that Labour basically conned the electorate to gain victory, we know political parties tell porkies in their manifestos and campaign trails, but there's bending the truth and there's bending the truth, Labour have overstepped the mark, they have blatantly lied and should be reported to the Electoral Commission and face investigation and their favourite thing .... a inquiry. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 3, 2024 15:06:36 GMT
Most of us on this site knew Labour were lying from the get-go, so it came as no surprise to us using the 'I was 'wrong' routine as a cop out for telling barefaced lies. The shock horror of all those who were naive enough to believe their lies and vote for them comes as no surprise to us, now the thing is what are these outraged people going to do about it now ... let the away with it? I am afraid it is too late. They have been gifted such a massive majority by the electorate that in parliament they are virtually untouchable until the next election. For better or worse we are stuck with them for the next four or five years. Yes we can vote against their councillors in local elections. The Scots and Welsh can vote against them in their next assembly elections. But the occasional byelection defeat in Westminster is barely going to dent their majority. The reality is we are stuck with them. Though I take solace from the fact that at least they are better than the Tories. Which is a very low bar to jump over. Have you seen the guy's poll ratings who runs it. He is actually a record breaker for the record of the biggest drop in popularity of any British prime minister post being elected into office. That really does take some doing in the current political environment. What do you say? Do you think the colleagues will mind? If they don't, then presumably it will keep on travelling into the red. Will people take to the streets as this Stalin character does a Stalin on us? The political commentators claim the man is actually pretty stupid and had been shoehorned into place via his commitment to institution conformity rather than merit/performance. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2024 15:09:29 GMT
I am afraid it is too late. They have been gifted such a massive majority by the electorate that in parliament they are virtually untouchable until the next election. For better or worse we are stuck with them for the next four or five years. Yes we can vote against their councillors in local elections. The Scots and Welsh can vote against them in their next assembly elections. But the occasional byelection defeat in Westminster is barely going to dent their majority. The reality is we are stuck with them. Though I take solace from the fact that at least they are better than the Tories. Which is a very low bar to jump over. Well I suppose that is the stark reality, however it does beggar belief that Labour basically conned the electorate to gain victory, we know political parties tell porkies in their manifestos and campaign trails, but there's bending the truth and there's bending the truth, Labour have overstepped the mark, they have blatantly lied and should be reported to the Electoral Commission and face investigation and their favourite thing .... a inquiry. If such things were ever going to happen it would have happened to Boris Johnson and many of those around him. Unfortunately, lying to the electorate is not a criminal offence. The only judgement they ever face for it is either the eventual revolt of their own MPs which finally brought down Johnson, or the judgement of the people at the ballot box. And neither is likely to be happening to Starmer anytime soon. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2024 15:21:45 GMT
I am afraid it is too late. They have been gifted such a massive majority by the electorate that in parliament they are virtually untouchable until the next election. For better or worse we are stuck with them for the next four or five years. Yes we can vote against their councillors in local elections. The Scots and Welsh can vote against them in their next assembly elections. But the occasional byelection defeat in Westminster is barely going to dent their majority. The reality is we are stuck with them. Though I take solace from the fact that at least they are better than the Tories. Which is a very low bar to jump over. Have you seen the guy's poll ratings who runs it. He is actually a record breaker for the record of the biggest drop in popularity of any British prime minister post being elected into office. That really does take some doing in the current political environment. What do you say? Do you think the colleagues will mind? If they don't, then presumably it will keep on travelling into the red. Will people take to the streets as this Stalin character does a Stalin on us? The political commentators claim the man is actually pretty stupid and had been shoehorned into place via his commitment to institution conformity rather than merit/performance. I simply don't think this early into a parliament his MPs will be all that bothered to be honest. The next election is far away and they will be consoling themselves with the hope that this might just be a blip and that there is plenty of time for things to turn around. I doubt whether there will be any serious panic at least until the results of the next locals are in. And even then it is likely to provoke changes of emphasis and maybe personnel in a reshuffle and little more. But if not only the locals of 2025 are disastrous but they are just as bad in 2026 two years in, thats when the possibility of a challenge to Starmer from within his own party potentially comes into play. But Labour has no history of unseating sitting prime ministers against their will so I think even this unlikely. Who would replace him anyway? Rule changes make it impossible to be someone of the left. So it will just be another centrist stooge. Little will actually change bar the presentation. However unpopular Starmer or his party might become, we are probably stuck with him or someone very much on the same page as him until the next general election. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Nov 3, 2024 15:37:44 GMT
Have you seen the guy's poll ratings who runs it. He is actually a record breaker for the record of the biggest drop in popularity of any British prime minister post being elected into office. That really does take some doing in the current political environment. What do you say? Do you think the colleagues will mind? If they don't, then presumably it will keep on travelling into the red. Will people take to the streets as this Stalin character does a Stalin on us? The political commentators claim the man is actually pretty stupid and had been shoehorned into place via his commitment to institution conformity rather than merit/performance. I simply don't think this early into a parliament his MPs will be all that bothered to be honest. The next election is far away and they will be consoling themselves with the hope that this might just be a blip and that there is plenty of time for things to turn around. I doubt whether there will be any serious panic at least until the results of the next locals are in. And even then it is likely to provoke changes of emphasis and maybe personnel in a reshuffle and little more. But if not only the locals of 2025 are disastrous but they are just as bad in 2026 two years in, thats when the possibility of a challenge to Starmer from within his own party potentially comes into play. But Labour has no history of unseating sitting prime ministers against their will so I think even this unlikely. Who would replace him anyway? Rule changes make it impossible to be someone of the left. So it will just be another centrist stooge. Little will actually change bar the presentation. However unpopular Starmer or his party might become, we are probably stuck with him or someone very much on the same page as him until the next general election. It looks like they will go the way of the Tories then, but a lot faster. |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 3, 2024 15:45:15 GMT
I have spent the last five years telling everyone that Starmer and those around him were proven liars, willing to say whatever will get them elected and do something very different once in power. They did that to the party membership in the last leadership election. But many gave him a free pass because they approved of him lying to us and breaking the pledges he made to us. I have spent the last five years telling anyone who will listen, that a liar is a liar, regardless of whether you approve or not. And that they are equally capable of lying to the rest of you to get elected, then breaking promises they never even meant once in office. And so it is proving. I am probably one of the least surprised members of this forum at their obvious lies and broken promises. Their modus operandi is to say what will win them the vote, then cite new information or changed circumstances to break their pledges once in place in the name of pragmatism. I have seen all this before inside the party. I always inwardly chuckled at the naivete and gullibility of those who hailed Starmer as a man of integrity, lol. In spite of him having clearly lied to his own membership to get where he was. lol In spite of your post that you warned against Starmer as a liar did you still vote for your local labour candidate at the GE? |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2024 15:49:06 GMT
Have you seen the guy's poll ratings who runs it. He is actually a record breaker for the record of the biggest drop in popularity of any British prime minister post being elected into office. That really does take some doing in the current political environment. What do you say? Do you think the colleagues will mind? If they don't, then presumably it will keep on travelling into the red. Will people take to the streets as this Stalin character does a Stalin on us? The political commentators claim the man is actually pretty stupid and had been shoehorned into place via his commitment to institution conformity rather than merit/performance. I simply don't think this early into a parliament his MPs will be all that bothered to be honest. The next election is far away and they will be consoling themselves with the hope that this might just be a blip and that there is plenty of time for things to turn around. I doubt whether there will be any serious panic at least until the results of the next locals are in. And even then it is likely to provoke changes of emphasis and maybe personnel in a reshuffle and little more. But if not only the locals of 2025 are disastrous but they are just as bad in 2026 two years in, thats when the possibility of a challenge to Starmer from within his own party potentially comes into play. But Labour has no history of unseating sitting prime ministers against their will so I think even this unlikely. Who would replace him anyway? Rule changes make it impossible to be someone of the left. So it will just be another centrist stooge. Little will actually change bar the presentation. However unpopular Starmer or his party might become, we are probably stuck with him or someone very much on the same page as him until the next general election. of course labour won't be bothered. Eventually they will have to face an angry electorate , while doing their usual and hoping everyone has amnesia. The question is how much damage can starmer and co do to labour over the next five years. The snp , arguably in a mess in scotland , and at their worst point in possibly decades , are jumping for joy approaching the next Scottish parliament elections. Looks like labour have handed them another term in power according to professor John Curtice. I think starmer , as we know who was elected off the back of voter apathy and an anti democratic system rather than popularity , has the ability to finish labour for decades to come. We are all cheering labour on from the sidelines , in their ivory tower , and arrogance knowing they cant be touched by the voting public at Westminster in the near future. they have lots to grapple with meantime , starting with the us presidential election. Keep the bad work up labour. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2024 15:49:12 GMT
I simply don't think this early into a parliament his MPs will be all that bothered to be honest. The next election is far away and they will be consoling themselves with the hope that this might just be a blip and that there is plenty of time for things to turn around. I doubt whether there will be any serious panic at least until the results of the next locals are in. And even then it is likely to provoke changes of emphasis and maybe personnel in a reshuffle and little more. But if not only the locals of 2025 are disastrous but they are just as bad in 2026 two years in, thats when the possibility of a challenge to Starmer from within his own party potentially comes into play. But Labour has no history of unseating sitting prime ministers against their will so I think even this unlikely. Who would replace him anyway? Rule changes make it impossible to be someone of the left. So it will just be another centrist stooge. Little will actually change bar the presentation. However unpopular Starmer or his party might become, we are probably stuck with him or someone very much on the same page as him until the next general election. It looks like they will go the way of the Tories then, but a lot faster. Labour losing the next election badly is certainly a distinct possibility but cannot be predicted with any semblance of certainty this far out. All we can really say this early is that anything is possible, a fact which acts as a canvas upon which we could potentially paint our own hopes, with wishful thinking the primary colours. But I am certain that there will be no election before at least 2028 and probably 2029. And I think the chances of Starmer being ousted by his own MPs this side of an election defeat are slim at best. We are stuck with them for a long while yet, for good or ill. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2024 15:51:19 GMT
I have spent the last five years telling everyone that Starmer and those around him were proven liars, willing to say whatever will get them elected and do something very different once in power. They did that to the party membership in the last leadership election. But many gave him a free pass because they approved of him lying to us and breaking the pledges he made to us. I have spent the last five years telling anyone who will listen, that a liar is a liar, regardless of whether you approve or not. And that they are equally capable of lying to the rest of you to get elected, then breaking promises they never even meant once in office. And so it is proving. I am probably one of the least surprised members of this forum at their obvious lies and broken promises. Their modus operandi is to say what will win them the vote, then cite new information or changed circumstances to break their pledges once in place in the name of pragmatism. I have seen all this before inside the party. I always inwardly chuckled at the naivete and gullibility of those who hailed Starmer as a man of integrity, lol. In spite of him having clearly lied to his own membership to get where he was. lol In spite of your post that you warned against Starmer as a liar did you still vote for your local labour candidate at the GE? No I did not vote Labour in the GE. I voted Green if you must know. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2024 15:54:39 GMT
It looks like they will go the way of the Tories then, but a lot faster. Labour losing the next election badly is certainly a distinct possibility but cannot be predicted with any semblance of certainty this far out. All we can really say this early is that anything is possible, a fact which acts as a canvas upon which we could potentially paint our own hopes, with wishful thinking the primary colours. But I am certain that there will be no election before at least 2028 and probably 2029. And I think the chances of Starmer being ousted by his own MPs this side of an election defeat are slim at best. We are stuck with them for a long while yet, for good or ill. brilliant. Let's hope starmer stays the course. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2024 15:56:23 GMT
Most of us on this site knew Labour were lying from the get-go, so it came as no surprise to us using the 'I was 'wrong' routine as a cop out for telling barefaced lies. The shock horror of all those who were naive enough to believe their lies and vote for them comes as no surprise to us, now the thing is what are these outraged people going to do about it now ... let the away with it? I am afraid it is too late. They have been gifted such a massive majority by the electorate that in parliament they are virtually untouchable until the next election. For better or worse we are stuck with them for the next four or five years. Yes we can vote against their councillors in local elections. The Scots and Welsh can vote against them in their next assembly elections. But the occasional byelection defeat in Westminster is barely going to dent their majority. The reality is we are stuck with them. Though I take solace from the fact that at least they are better than the Tories. Which is a very low bar to jump over.They have only been in power 18 weeks - give them time.. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 3, 2024 15:59:14 GMT
Perhaps the population is so thick that they're not worth the time and should be treated like cattle. Possibly. Most people just want to go work, pay the bills , have a bunk up and maybe go on a holiday . They generally aren’t interested in politics and vote accordingly. Those who have an interest in politics soon realise that they don’t have much of a choice anyway . Politicians don’t need to tell the truth to be elected, in fact telling the truth voiding be a liability In reality I was too busy running the business that put food on the table, kept a roof over our heads and kept Jennifer in a private nursery so Moira could do the books and meet the agents etc etc twice a week to notice what politicians were up to From 1989 until 1997 that didn't matter, all I faced was Tory incompetence that said some traders were incapable of claiming overnight accomodation as a business expense because how could you be in business while you were asleep. Yes really and I lost the tribunal on that one, cost me £6000 in unpaid tax and interest. But from 1997 I faced Blair's all out assault on the SME. Had I realised what the piece of shit was up to I'd have joined the party and wormed my way up. I'd be a millionaire by now as would several of my associates |
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