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Post by Handyman on Oct 31, 2024 21:12:35 GMT
Sorry not sure what point you are trying to make. In relation to that attack there was no doubt it was an attack by a Proscribed Terror Group as they claimed responsibility for it and the subsequent investigation across Europe and into the US tracked the Terrorists and proved it So.. If an airliner crashed into the empire state building two weeks later, you would form no opinion as to the cause until a Proscribed Terror Group claimed responsibility? Why do you go round and round in circles ? I get dizzy easily to prove anything you have to evidence facts to prove anything, not best guess and not just for criminal activity or terrorism but to lots of things, some thought the earth was flat but later its was proved that was wrong |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 31, 2024 21:26:22 GMT
So.. If an airliner crashed into the empire state building two weeks later, you would form no opinion as to the cause until a Proscribed Terror Group claimed responsibility? Why do you go round and round in circles ? I get dizzy easily to prove anything you have to evidence facts to prove anything, not best guess and not just for criminal activity or terrorism but to lots of things, some thought the earth was flat but later its was proved that was wrong I think the point is proving it is different from suspecting it. So far it is stated not to be terrorist related despite the MO (although not actually confirmed as yet) being very similar to other Jihadi attacks and the finding of terrorist material in his home Not sure how much evidence you need before specifically searching for more if you believe it is terror related. If it is not believed to be terror related then evidence for murder is all that is sought and they seem to be specifically saying the murders are not terror related. That seems to take a special sort of blindness. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 31, 2024 22:15:14 GMT
Why do you go round and round in circles ? I get dizzy easily to prove anything you have to evidence facts to prove anything, not best guess and not just for criminal activity or terrorism but to lots of things, some thought the earth was flat but later its was proved that was wrong I think the point is proving it is different from suspecting it. So far it is stated not to be terrorist related despite the MO (although not actually confirmed as yet) being very similar to other Jihadi attacks and the finding of terrorist material in his home Not sure how much evidence you need before specifically searching for more if you believe it is terror related. If it is not believed to be terror related then evidence for murder is all that is sought and they seem to be specifically saying the murders are not terror related. That seems to take a special sort of blindness.I think the problem is the speed that they came out with that claim. They did a search of his house, found a jihad training manual, chemical weapons and then said he was just a choir boy from Cardiff and no terrorist connection was made. To claim on the day after the attack that it was not “terror-related” does seem rather premature. |
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Post by Handyman on Nov 1, 2024 0:19:37 GMT
I think the point is proving it is different from suspecting it. So far it is stated not to be terrorist related despite the MO (although not actually confirmed as yet) being very similar to other Jihadi attacks and the finding of terrorist material in his home Not sure how much evidence you need before specifically searching for more if you believe it is terror related. If it is not believed to be terror related then evidence for murder is all that is sought and they seem to be specifically saying the murders are not terror related. That seems to take a special sort of blindness.I think the problem is the speed that they came out with that claim. They did a search of his house, found a jihad training manual, chemical weapons and then said he was just a choir boy from Cardiff and no terrorist connection was made. To claim on the day after the attack that it was not “terror-related” does seem rather premature. I am still of the same opinion the Investigation is still on going even though he has been charged with three dreadful Murders and the attempted Murders, yes he had a terrorist training manual but that in itself does not prove he is a Terrorist, a Journalist can posses such literature, so can a writer or an academic person studying Terrorism legitimate reasons. He has been charged with Manufacturing Ricin even though that does not come under the Terrorism Act but another Act, Tommy Robinson was charged under the Terrorism Act for refusing to unlock his phone when asked by Anti Terrorism Police when re-entering the UK , that is not an act of Terrorism but its included in Terrorism Legislation as far as I am aware Police who arrest people for criminal offences also have the same power when they arrest run of the mill criminals drug dealers etc under the RIPA Act The CPS may well charge him with Terrorism Offences at a later date if there is evidence to support a charge or charges under the Terrorism Act, we will have to wait and see the Police Investigation is still on going |
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Post by Orac on Nov 1, 2024 0:35:31 GMT
I think the point is proving it is different from suspecting it. So far it is stated not to be terrorist related despite the MO (although not actually confirmed as yet) being very similar to other Jihadi attacks and the finding of terrorist material in his home Not sure how much evidence you need before specifically searching for more if you believe it is terror related. If it is not believed to be terror related then evidence for murder is all that is sought and they seem to be specifically saying the murders are not terror related. That seems to take a special sort of blindness.I think the problem is the speed that they came out with that claim. They did a search of his house, found a jihad training manual, chemical weapons and then said he was just a choir boy from Cardiff and no terrorist connection was made. To claim on the day after the attack that it was not “terror-related” does seem rather premature. I would use the word perverse |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 1, 2024 6:13:36 GMT
I get Handyman's point: The charges may well not meet the definition of specific terrorist offences eg there is no offence of “Terror murder”.
But to say that the murders were not a terrorist incident is quite clearly peverse.
There is no such offence as “Racial murder” but if a white supremacist murdered a black person it would clearly be deemed a racial “incident”.
As this should clearly be deemed a “Terror incident”.
Because it is.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 1, 2024 9:10:10 GMT
He's going to face 3 counts of murder, and how many attempted counts of murder, that's for sure.
Will a racist charge be threw in ... I doubt it.
Will a terrorist charge be threw in .... maybe, but it will only be he had the paraphernalia (ricin) to make it a terrorist offense.
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Post by Handyman on Nov 1, 2024 9:40:49 GMT
I get Handyman's point: The charges may well not meet the definition of specific terrorist offences eg there is no offence of “Terror murder”. But to say that the murders were not a terrorist incident is quite clearly peverse. There is no such offence as “Racial murder” but if a white supremacist murdered a black person it would clearly be deemed a racial “incident”. As this should clearly be deemed a “Terror incident”. Because it is. I agree with you my own personal opinion is he is a Terrorist but as you state there is no offence on the books of " Terrorist Murder " hence the charges of three murders under Common Law and ten attempted murders, the Ricin Charge and possession of a Terrorist Manual, he will be dealt with, personally he should get a suspended sentence from the nearest tree. As the evidence against him is so strong IMO what defence can his Defence Team mount ? IMO they will go for " he is insane mentally ill " it depends what the Medical Experts think , he will either end up in Solitary Confinement in Prison on a whole life tariff never to be released, or a secure mental institution for life. I feel sorry for the Parents of the children murdered and the children who were injured , they will never be the same it will haunt them all for the rest of their lives including those who managed to escape |
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Post by Rebirth on Nov 1, 2024 9:51:43 GMT
I think the point is proving it is different from suspecting it. So far it is stated not to be terrorist related despite the MO (although not actually confirmed as yet) being very similar to other Jihadi attacks and the finding of terrorist material in his home Not sure how much evidence you need before specifically searching for more if you believe it is terror related. If it is not believed to be terror related then evidence for murder is all that is sought and they seem to be specifically saying the murders are not terror related. That seems to take a special sort of blindness.I think the problem is the speed that they came out with that claim. They did a search of his house, found a jihad training manual, chemical weapons and then said he was just a choir boy from Cardiff and no terrorist connection was made. To claim on the day after the attack that it was not “terror-related” does seem rather premature. The state is clearly allowing terrorists to operate and focusing all of their energy into covering it up for the purpose of persecuting the people who "trusted their instincts" and reacted to it. Obviously, since this came out a while after the fact fewer people will be paying attention. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 1, 2024 10:06:31 GMT
If the terrorist act doesn't deal with somebody downloading terrorist literature, making extremely dangerous poisons and randomly slashing children, maybe it needs to be repealed due to lack of a proper function.
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Post by Orac on Nov 1, 2024 10:57:19 GMT
Here is a broader question.
Why is UK legislation interpreted or written in such way that it doesn't do any of things the UK public think need to be done, but does do all the things the British people don't think need to be done?
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Post by Handyman on Nov 1, 2024 11:29:34 GMT
If the terrorist act doesn't deal with somebody downloading terrorist literature, making extremely dangerous poisons and randomly slashing children, maybe it needs to be repealed due to lack of a proper function. He has been charged for downloading a Terrorist Manual contrary to Section 58 of the of the Terrorism 2000 He has been charged with manufacturing a biological toxin ( Ricin) contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974. He has been charged with three counts of Murder of the three girls Contrary to Common Law , plus 10 Counts of Attempted Murder. All of which carry severe penalty's on the Murder charges alone if he pleads guilty or found guilty he will more than likely put away for the rest of his life There may well be other Criminal Charges that may be brought against him as well, time will tell. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 1, 2024 11:42:31 GMT
If the terrorist act doesn't deal with somebody downloading terrorist literature, making extremely dangerous poisons and randomly slashing children, maybe it needs to be repealed due to lack of a proper function. He has been charged for downloading a Terrorist Manual contrary to Section 58 of the of the Terrorism 2000 He has been charged with manufacturing a biological toxin ( Ricin) contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974. He has been charged with three counts of Murder of the three girls Contrary to Common Law , plus 10 Counts of Attempted Murder. People have drawn this parallel before, but it worth going over again .. If he had been downloading literature written by a proscribed Nazi group, if he had been white, if he had been constructing weapons of poisons in his basement and if he had gone out and murdered several random black or Jewish children, then the government would have made the obvious link between his actions and his overwhelmingly likely motivations for those actions and called the murders an act of terrorism |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 1, 2024 11:51:11 GMT
If the terrorist act doesn't deal with somebody downloading terrorist literature, making extremely dangerous poisons and randomly slashing children, maybe it needs to be repealed due to lack of a proper function. He has been charged for downloading a Terrorist Manual contrary to Section 58 of the of the Terrorism 2000 He has been charged with manufacturing a biological toxin ( Ricin) contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974. He has been charged with three counts of Murder of the three girls Contrary to Common Law , plus 10 Counts of Attempted Murder. All of which carry severe penalty's on the Murder charges alone if he pleads guilty or found guilty he will more than likely put away for the rest of his life There may well be other Criminal Charges that may be brought against him as well, time will tell. The question still remains though. Why are the murders not being considered a suspected terrorist incident. We know nothing about him and the police have all the information and seem to be dishing it out with a high degree of circumspection. Was he a Muslim, did he attend a Mosque, what were his links to Islam, did he act totally alone, was the MO in line with lone wolf attacks as suggested by ISIS and suchlike, who did he associate with, were his parents Muslim and attend a Mosque etc etc. Most of that information will not affect his case in any way as most of it is already in the public domain but seems to be under some form of embargo. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 1, 2024 12:11:49 GMT
He has been charged for downloading a Terrorist Manual contrary to Section 58 of the of the Terrorism 2000 He has been charged with manufacturing a biological toxin ( Ricin) contrary to Section 1 of the Biological Weapons Act 1974. He has been charged with three counts of Murder of the three girls Contrary to Common Law , plus 10 Counts of Attempted Murder. People have drawn this parallel before, but it worth going over again .. If he had been downloading literature written by a proscribed Nazi group, if he had been white, if he had been constructing weapons of poisons in his basement and if he had gone out and murdered several random black or Jewish children, then the government would have made the obvious link between his actions and his overwhelmingly likely motivations for those actions and called the murders an act of terrorism Such a perpetrator wouldn't need to have harmed anyone to be convicted of terrorist offences; he would just need to have written about it online.
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