|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Oct 30, 2024 7:51:07 GMT
...the police have confirmed today that they are not treating the stanbings as a terrorist event...
Then they're fucking idiots. Or they think we are.
Glad you know better than them. Fwiw I think that Handyman explained this very well, and his posts are inciteful. |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 30, 2024 7:56:05 GMT
Then they're fucking idiots. Or they think we are.
Glad you know better than them... Join the dots, Andy. Fwiw I think that Handyman explained this very well, and his posts are inciteful. Yes, and I agree with everything he said. None of which affects my point. But nice attempted deflection.
(Oh, and the word is insightful).
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Oct 30, 2024 8:04:34 GMT
The police lady appears to be warning that public speculation about motives could jeopardise the murder investigation, but that doesn't make much sense. Surely adding a terrorism angle to the charge will only make it a more serious offence. It's remarkable the extent to which the police and politicians walk on eggs when it to comes to Muslim criminality. IMHO It is normal for Police to say very little when they arrest and charge a suspect with Murder, the reason they do not go into detail is they do not want to jeopardise the inevitable trial as members of the Public will form a Jury, and need to approach their task with an open mind, and told by the Court to put aside any speculation rumours they may have heard in the press or locally. Same when suspected Terrorists are put on trial the Press are told very little, the Judge can put in place reporting restrictions even hold some of the Trial in Camera , no press no public in the gallery just the Jury, Defendants, Council, Defence, and those giving evidence, etc. Again IMHO. The Internet is great lots of correct information to hand, but there is also a lot of false inaccurate information Rumour Control some of which has recently caused violence on UK Streets and in other countries, spread by those with an axe to grind, or their Political views, or lunatics or by another hostile country that wants to cause unrest, Russia is a prime example. With this man you will only get to know chapter and verse as when and if he is convicted of Murder and Attempted Murder, as for the Terrorism Charges we may not full chapter and verse, as it is highly likely the Terrorism Unit, MI5 and MI6 will be looking at who he was in contact where they and what they maybe, all done on the QT On the contrary, a terrorism connection will go a long way towards establishing motive, which has be a central consideration in any murder trial. The possibility that announcing such a connection could damage 'community cohesion' is insufficient reason to conceal it from the public. |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Oct 30, 2024 8:35:34 GMT
Then they're fucking idiots. Or they think we are.
Fwiw I think that Handyman explained this very well, and his posts are inciteful. It doesn't take much to know better andrea....You should try it sometime.. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Oct 30, 2024 8:44:58 GMT
Then they're fucking idiots. Or they think we are.
Glad you know better than them. Fwiw I think that Handyman explained this very well, and his posts are inciteful. Herein lies the problem. We do not know better than the police but we can see how different treatments are at work dependant on backgrounds. If a RW link is suspected heaven and earth are moved to ensure that the link is known and attributed, if an Islamic link is suspected the same heaven and earth are moved to keep the link from being forged. Some gadgie bas was on the radio this am saying that one has to prove a link to further a cause and many lone wolves are not furthering the cause they are purely seeking their own glorification. That sounds like a big get out. |
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Oct 30, 2024 8:45:05 GMT
Then they're fucking idiots. Or they think we are.
Glad you know better than them. Fwiw I think that Handyman explained this very well, and his posts are inciteful. Anyway.... have you found any law or rules that allow migrants to pay illegal people traffickers to take them to any country their little hearts desire to claim Asylum, thus making them illegal migrants, and not as you keep making a fool of yourself insisting they are Asylum seekers, I take it you can't find any such Asylum laws, meaning they don't exist because paying illegal people traffickers is against every rule in the book.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Oct 30, 2024 8:45:59 GMT
This is a careful choice of words..
"became aware of new Southport charges" is not necessarily the same thing as "was told about the A-Q manual and the ricin".
Would the Home Sec and PM have been left in the dark about those finds for several months? - or did they know and chose to keep quiet?.
We should be told.
A spokesperson for the prime minister said it was "not correct" to say the government had been involved in withholding facts from the public.
|
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Oct 30, 2024 8:50:14 GMT
Not forgetting this clown who is running the country once run the CPS, so he knows every trick in the book, and he certainly knows how to cover up for criminals, that we all know for a fact.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Oct 30, 2024 8:52:05 GMT
Glad you know better than them. Fwiw I think that Handyman explained this very well, and his posts are inciteful. Anyway.... have you found any law or rules that allow migrants to pay illegal people traffickers to take them to any country their little hearts desire to claim Asylum, thus making them illegal migrants, and not as you keep making a fool of yourself insisting they are Asylum seekers, I take it you can't find any such Asylum laws, meaning they don't exist because paying illegal people traffickers is against every rule in the book.
I don't know why you keep asking this, I've pointed out several times to you that their asylum claim is not based on how they entered the country. I'm not sure why you are finding that difficult, or bringing it up in multiple threads? |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 30, 2024 8:54:34 GMT
IMHO It is normal for Police to say very little when they arrest and charge a suspect with Murder, the reason they do not go into detail is they do not want to jeopardise the inevitable trial as members of the Public will form a Jury, and need to approach their task with an open mind, and told by the Court to put aside any speculation rumours they may have heard in the press or locally. Same when suspected Terrorists are put on trial the Press are told very little, the Judge can put in place reporting restrictions even hold some of the Trial in Camera , no press no public in the gallery just the Jury, Defendants, Council, Defence, and those giving evidence, etc. Again IMHO. The Internet is great lots of correct information to hand, but there is also a lot of false inaccurate information Rumour Control some of which has recently caused violence on UK Streets and in other countries, spread by those with an axe to grind, or their Political views, or lunatics or by another hostile country that wants to cause unrest, Russia is a prime example. With this man you will only get to know chapter and verse as when and if he is convicted of Murder and Attempted Murder, as for the Terrorism Charges we may not full chapter and verse, as it is highly likely the Terrorism Unit, MI5 and MI6 will be looking at who he was in contact where they and what they maybe, all done on the QT On the contrary, a terrorism connection will go a long way towards establishing motive, which has be a central consideration in any murder trial. The possibility that announcing such a connection could damage 'community cohesion' is insufficient reason to conceal it from the public. Excellent point.
However, I suspect that the CPS (because they are the decision makers, not the police) probably feel that they have sufficient to prove murder as it is (the circumstances of the offences makes that pretty much self-evident). Likewise the terror offences: Simple possession of such items is likely sufficient to prove the offence.
Tying the two together would add a layer of complexity, which the CPS probably feel that they don't need.
Let's face it: He's going down for life either way.
But for the police to keep claiming it's not terror related is farcical.
(And that's my professional insight, for the benefit of Andy Brown).
|
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Oct 30, 2024 8:57:47 GMT
Anyway.... have you found any law or rules that allow migrants to pay illegal people traffickers to take them to any country their little hearts desire to claim Asylum, thus making them illegal migrants, and not as you keep making a fool of yourself insisting they are Asylum seekers, I take it you can't find any such Asylum laws, meaning they don't exist because paying illegal people traffickers is against every rule in the book.
I don't know why you keep asking this, I've pointed out several times to you that their asylum claim is not based on how they entered the country. I'm not sure why you are finding that difficult, or bringing it up in multiple threads? When they pay illegal people traffickers money to leave one safe country to enter another they are 'illegal migrants', not Asylum seekers, illegal migrants.
Why you can't get your head round it is bewildering, the UNHCR will tell you they are not genuine Asylum seekers, ECHR will tell you they are not genuine Asylum seekers, because they will not be seen to engage, or encourage criminal activity in order to let criminals gain Asylum in the UK or any other country.
|
|
|
|
Post by Handyman on Oct 30, 2024 9:12:09 GMT
Hardly that much of a surprise, and I pleased Wooton is not saying more. In the Evening Standard today " The teenager accused of the fatal stabbing of three girls at a dance class in Southport has been charged with production of a deadly poison and a terror offence, the chief constable of Merseyside Police has said. Axel Rudakubana, 18, will appear at Westminster Magistrates’ Court by videolink on Wednesday charged with production of a biological toxin, Ricin, and possession of information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing to commit an act of terrorism. The charges come after searches of his home in Banks, Lancashire, Merseyside Police Chief Constable Serena Kennedy said at a press conference on Tuesday. The terror offence relates to a PDF file entitled Military Studies In The Jihad Against The Tyrants, The Al Qaeda Training Manual, Ms Kennedy said. " I wonder how he got hold of a copy of my 1981 research paper ? Nobody's knocked the door for a chat. Hmmm. Something I picked up from a couple of reports. The terrorism charges arise from posession of materials likely to be useful blah blah blah. The stabbing was not pronounced a terrorist incident because the ass holes learned their lesson then hard way with Edward Snowden's material. When a Telegraph journalist used his argentinian boyfriend to mule the state secrets out of the UK, the twats busted him under the Terrorism Act 2000. Such utter stupidity cannot be brushed aside, for the charge made required proof of motive, which they knew they'd never pin on him, whereas had they charged him as a citizen of a hostile foreign power being found in possession of military secrets contrary to our Espionage laws, well .... So I'm pretty sure they don't want to go there and have the case dismissed for lack of motive ... The Police as per usual will work on the same principle as they have for years, " Who, What, Where, How, When and Why " Why did you do what you did ?, how ever the suspect cannot be forced to say anything at all. |
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 30, 2024 9:17:29 GMT
This is a careful choice of words.. "became aware of new Southport charges" is not necessarily the same thing as "was told about the A-Q manual and the ricin". Would the Home Sec and PM have been left in the dark about those finds for several months?... Left in the dark for months? Wildly unlikely. The question is: When were these things discovered? Making Ricin implies physical trace evidence, but that takes time to analyse. Likewise the Al-Qaeda training manual was in the form of a PDF on a computer and again, it can take months to trawl through every file, potentially on multiple electronic devices. I'd suggest that the Home Sec would have been updated as soon as these things were known. But how recent that was, who knows? |
|
|
|
Post by Rebirth on Oct 30, 2024 9:19:27 GMT
If this evidence was found during a search of the suspect's home, then it would have been discovered very soon after the killings - so why have the Police sat on this and allowed those people claiming an Islamist link to get attacked in the media?. Because they're politicised and corrupt? |
|
|
|
Post by Hutchyns on Oct 30, 2024 9:25:58 GMT
johnofgwent A more than respectable effort John, as I'm sure you're working solely from memory more than 10 years after the event. But a pedant's paradise nonetheless, and we have to take what small pleasures we can get  . A Guardian journalist used his Brazilian husband to mule state secrets out of the UK. I was sure Miranda was Brazilian, and learn that he and Greenwald had been 'married' since 2005. Incidentally, would 'the citizen of a hostile foreign power' claim have been equally as accurate for Brazil as Argentina in 2013 ? |
|
.