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Post by Vinny on Jan 3, 2023 10:59:26 GMT
Switzerland is not a member of the Single Market or the Customs Union.
Think about it.
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Post by Steve on Jan 3, 2023 11:07:16 GMT
Switzerland is not a member of the Single Market or the Customs Union. Think about it. That it shows the EU has standards? Jesting aside it shows that the Swiss have over and over voted for 'cake and eat it' and still not got it. With its crossroads of Europe bargaining position, far stronger than the UK's, it still has to accept EU rules without any ability to influence them or find itself in trouble. So it always backs down.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 3, 2023 11:24:04 GMT
And yet, Switzerland is not in the Customs Union.
All this blubbing we hear from Europhiles about the Customs Union, there is not enough of a case for it.
EFTA EEA type relationship / Swiss Style relationship ? Ok, perhaps there's a case. But Customs Union ?
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 3, 2023 11:46:26 GMT
What do you mean always back down? It has a constitution which demands referendums on government proposals far more often than most other countries. It has nearly as many opt outs from EU legislation than the UK had. It still has border checks on routes into and out of the EU to resolve duties and tarrifs but it respects internal EU regulations like workers rights, standards of quality, and the 4 freedoms.
Switzerland is in the Single market but not the customs union. Do your own research before you tell me I am mistaken. Not that it matters anyway. Except that it should have been clarified during the 4 years of EU/UK negotiations. Unfortunately the media didn't bother to explain the fundamental aspects and allowed guided suspicion and guesswork that allowed political leaver voices to hoodwink the general public to vote in the biggest liar in British history of premiership. And the rest is becoming history. More Tory privatisation, more Tory cronyism, more Rees-Mogg misinformation, more filthy water, government refusal to respect public services pay in respect of the inflation the drop in the value of the pound has exacerbated because the rest of the world sees a declining economy due to lack of growth and a slippery snakebite government which hasn't governed since 2016. In a market of rising interest rates and declining economy, plus a huge debt, the treasury cannot afford to print more money or borrow more. And the UK has, due to the utter pantomime that was Brexit, now made trade with its wealthy nearest neighbour, as difficult and expensive as it can be and still be inside the WTO.
I dont blame gullible leavers who wanted a change and were promised time travel to another golden age of independent control and no need to compromise. I blame the political puppeteers who saw the golden future only for themselves and their lust for unlimited control. If Boris had his way he would have abolished Parliament's authority to leave it a pointless sham. Well now we have to hope that the next government has the interests of the people at heart. And has some foresight and creative imagination for the economy.
I don't give a rats ass about Switzerland. I care deeply about the future of the UK. There will always be those who when you push a verbal button, regurgitate old tropes without checking. That's OK. am not about to have Punch and Judy conversations with them. The only regret is that I have to live with their mistakes.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 3, 2023 12:06:49 GMT
If you're against privatisation why are you pro EU ?
The EU is amongst other things a capitalist market and privatisation was done to make ourselves more compatible with its anti monopoly pro competition framework.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 3, 2023 14:19:47 GMT
Very amusing to hear you talking about "misinformation". For a start Switzerland is NOT in the single market. If it were it wouldn't need any agreement on tariffs and duties - that's all covered by the SM agreement. Secondly its arrangement of having over 100 sectoral trade deals is LESS comprehensive than our own deal, which covers all goods. So you'd think that goods from Switzerland would qualify for more customs checks. As for it "becoming too expensive to send from the UK to the EU" it's not a matter of "expense". The problem that small companies (like a motorbike spare parts dealer) have is that the bureaucracy that the EU demand is not worth the bother - unless they're doing a large amount of trade. It's perfectly possible to rade freely with the EU but they would need to hire a consultant to advise them on the customs forms required, because the EU are playing hardball. s the European Union a customs union? The EU Customs Union, established in 1968, makes it easier for EU companies to trade, harmonises customs duties on goods from outside the EU and helps to protect Europe's citizens, animals and the environment. european-union.europa.eu › ... Customs - European Union What are the key elements of the EU single market? The cornerstones of the single market are often said to be the “four freedoms” – the free movement of people, goods, services and capital. These freedoms are embedded in the European Union's treaties and form the basis of the Single Market legislative framework. www.cece.eu › european-sin... European Single Market - cece.eu The first details the trading relationship with non EU countries. The second is the rules within it. 4 non EU countries have made special arrangements to be included in the single market . I am finished here. Do your own research.i won't spend time discussing this with those at kindergarten level. If they aren't clear about such fundamental concepts, either pré or post Brexit, they never will. Thank you Steve for your self appointed role as arbitrator. You seem confused too. So since the issue is not now important, I am moving on. I don't see why you're pasting EU puff about the CU and SM. I know what they are. The fact that you have to look them up shows that you don't. Switzerland has not agreed to "four freedoms" and is not in the SM - and it's also not in the CU. The CU enforces high tariffs on members who decide to trade with non member countries - and Switzerland was very against that. That's why it has more trade deals than the EU. You are totally ignorant of the history of both the EU and Switzerland - so I suggest you fuck off posting nonsense. The idea that Switzerland would be a member of the SM and spend 6 years negotiating bilateral trade deals is beyond ridiculous. You can't even understand your own cut-and-paste. I've put the relevant bit in bold for you thicko.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 3, 2023 16:25:34 GMT
Do you always get abusive when you are proven to be wrong? I posted definitions for YOUR benefit, not mine. Now I am off to discuss something important and leave you to wallow in your own intellectual and emotionally immature swamp.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 3, 2023 17:37:29 GMT
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Post by Steve on Jan 3, 2023 18:09:24 GMT
Do you always get abusive when you are proven to be wrong? I posted definitions for YOUR benefit, not mine. Now I am off to discuss something important and leave you to wallow in your own intellectual and emotionally immature swamp. But you were wrong about Switzerland 'being in the single market' which is what Steppenwolf has patiently tried to explain to you but it isn't getting through to your grey matter.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 3, 2023 18:23:16 GMT
Do you always get abusive when you are proven to be wrong? I posted definitions for YOUR benefit, not mine. Now I am off to discuss something important and leave you to wallow in your own intellectual and emotionally immature swamp. You're beginning to sound like Kim, a lot like Kim. And once again, as Steppenwolf has pointed out, Switzerland is NOT a member of the Single Market. www.eeas.europa.eu/switzerland/european-union-and-switzerland_en?s=180
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 3, 2023 19:29:04 GMT
If it walks like a duck and squawks like a duck, it isn't a walrus.
I will get back to you when you prove the country doesn't operate fully within the single market.
You have 48 hours. Then my number of blocked members grows.
This thread is about protectionism, not Switzerland. It is full of argumentative insulting abusive fools who are fighting battles that meant something nearly 10 years ago.
But they never discuss the road to the future they created.
It's like conversing with the dead. Talk among yourselves.
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 3, 2023 19:48:53 GMT
In fact I have cruised around this site and found very little except insults, incised opinions and even a thread about verbal abuse which became pages of verbal abuse. I have been associated with someone I have never heard of in some personal reference in this thread about protectionism which morphed into some chapter of ancient historical dispute about another country in a trade block we don't belong to anymore. There are 4 or 5 moderators here and no moderation.
See you sometime. This place is toxic.
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Post by Vinny on Jan 3, 2023 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 4, 2023 7:10:00 GMT
The government of the UK disagrees with you. www.gov.uk/eu-eea#:~:text=Switzerland%20is%20not%20an%20EU,UK%20as%20other%20EEA%20nationals. "The EEA includes EU countries and also Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway. It allows them to be part of the EU’s single market. Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals." This is my last post in this part of this forum. I am not prepared to educate those who refuse to be educated, nor use energy on something that doesn't matter, where all that matters is schoolboy ego. Amuse yourselves. None of it makes a difference. No one cares.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 4, 2023 7:43:09 GMT
"Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals."
It's just loose phraseology - it simply means that they have partial access to the SM. You're either IN the Single Market or NOT. SWitzerland has ACCESS to the SM - just as the UK does but it's not IN the SM. Switzerland deliberately decided to go down the route of negotiating sectoral bilateral deals for trade rather than be in the Single Market because it didn't want all the "baggage" that goes with the SM. if they'd wanted to be in the SM they'd have voted for EEA membership - which, as you should know - they rejected in a referendum. Instead they spent about 6 years negotiating bilateral deals (sector by sector), and they also negotiated a special deal on "movement" which is NOT the same as the FoM deal included in the SM. One of the problems with the SM is that it is an overarching FTA that covers everything. Many countries do NOT want that - and Switzerland didn't want it. In fact the UK would be better off with selective trade deals but our politicians wouldn't allow it - because they're idiots.
The main interesting thing about Switzerland is that it trades without friction with the EU while being a third party country. And the reason for that is because the EU cooperates with Switzerland (mainly anyway). The EU is intent of making an example of the UK because it doesn't want other EU countries to leave.
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