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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 12:30:13 GMT
The lie was buried in the term "tarriffs" which to the average punter means costs to trade. No one ever discussed "duties" which are what the customs union erases. They are what has forced many UK SME's to go out of business as those who import prefer to import from inside the EU where they don't pay duties. They also made many UK items unavailable in the EU via online trading hubs like Amazon. Shoppers just won't pay the duties. The whole leave stuff was based on fools' gold...look what we could do. Of course that leaves it up to the imagination of the voter...who had little idea of what life is like outside the EU. They could be told anything and dazzled by suggestion and glittering garbage. Of course the UK could do anything outside the EU...build a space programme, discover oil under Devon, reclaim the commonwealth...rediscover its greatness. And just enough people were dazzled by the simplicity of the idea. And now look at what we got. The leader of the leavers turned out to be a self interested sozzle more interested in power and parties than governing, and since 2016 the country hasn't been governed in any meaningful way. All those opportunities...where have they been taken up? What is better now than then? Sure we will have to make the best of the snakeoil but what a stupid decision designed to impress by fabulous dreams. What a pile of nonsense. There are no tariffs, no quotas and no duty to pay on exports to the EU - provided the goods are made in the UK. There has to be this proviso to prevent the UK being a conduit for other countries selling to the EU. The only difference now is that the buyer has to pay VAT in the destination country. The "barrier" to trade now is that exports now have to be accompanied by various documents (including customs declarations) which the EU has weaponised and checks are made on a high proportion of loads (far more than imports from countries other than the UK) and rejected for any trivial reason they can find. Switzerland also has to obey the same rules (being a third party country and neither in the Single Market nor the Customs Union) and they seem to trade with very little friction. IE there are quotas on cars we manufacture here from Japanese parts if they become too significant. This is a burden to Nissan etc who have to continually manage that issue. There are no volume car manufacturers in the Switzerland you mention. Also there are quotas on fish exports - see Annex 4 etc eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:22021A0430(01)&from=EN Whether the EU has 'weaponised' the paperwork is debatable, I suspect they ask for less than they do with other non EU countries but it seems you wish the equivalent of divorcing a wife calling her fat and ugly and then want her to still do your ironing. Was never going to happen as Remain said and Leave lied that they were wrong. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 2, 2023 13:41:02 GMT
Britain makes very little wholly within itself. It has for a long time assembled things it imports. I know of someone who lives in Germany who likes British motorbikes. He used to order parts from the UK and didn't pay any extra oncosts. Today he gets his parts from within the EU because it costs too much from the UK. This is one exam0le of why UK businesses are having such a hard time. The internal market is tiny to compete with the whole of the EU. Switzerland has numerous trade deals with the EU. Its position is not comparable to the UK's. Switzerland is directly comparable to the UK because it's a third party country and is neither in the SM or CU. The situation regarding exporting anything to the EU is that they must satisfy the EU rules of origin regulations. If your colleague can't import parts from the UK it's because the supplier cannot provide the correct documentation to get it through the EU's checks - and can't be bothered to export to the EU because it's more trouble than it's worth. "Duty" is actually a very small charge but - as I said - the EU has weaponised the border and is using it to stop UK imports. It's basically just a matter of a trade war based on documentation. There probably isn't a country in the world that makes anything without components from China or Taiwan - and that includes the EU. It's just that the EU has decided to be difficult about imports from the UK - while we just let everything from the EU throigh regardless. THAT's the problem. It's about time we reciprocated - we have plenty of other markets to buy from. And we are one of the EU's most profitable export matkets. Time our govt grew some balls. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 2, 2023 14:24:42 GMT
. It's about time we reciprocated - we have plenty of other markets to buy from. And we are one of the EU's most profitable export matkets. Time our govt grew some balls. The UK sure is one of the EU's most important markets, Snuggles. 30% of the UK's food supply is sourced from the EU. This would be the perfect time to teach the EU a lesson. Now that prices on food and energy are at an historical low, this is the ideal time to decrease competition. That'll have a deflationary effect immediately and Brexit Britain will finally be livin' the dream. And you wonder why the tide of public opinion is turning against Brexit! |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 2, 2023 14:51:06 GMT
China is not a 'state-driven economic model' but a mixed economy. Those industries which can't be competitive, e.g. the classic one is road building, are handed by SOCs (state-owned enterprises). The industries which are competitive are in the market economy where free trade is practised. However there are some industries where SOCs compete with privately owned firms. It's like the government is the shareholder. The fact that private industry can and does compete with SOCs shows the government is not subsidising them, but more like owning the shares. What the US is doing is far more damaging to free trade in that is is subsidising chips. The government here is trying to control the market. In China the government is pretty hands off, although it is true to say the government likes to encourage private firms to use modern technology for their own good so they are competitive in international markets. It's pretty innocent really because the government has a stake in all firms becasuse all firms will generate tax income, so what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Your article is ignorant and inaccurate.It just flings a designation at you and expects you to trust the blighters. There is no finesse to it. The EU has been driven to enact its own protectionism to protect against the US' protectionism which in turn is designed to fight China. So it is not the EU's fault. It's those far right neo cons who want to run the world according to their law. Friggin' cowboys, the lot of them!
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 2, 2023 15:01:50 GMT
Britain makes very little wholly within itself. It has for a long time assembled things it imports. I know of someone who lives in Germany who likes British motorbikes. He used to order parts from the UK and didn't pay any extra oncosts. Today he gets his parts from within the EU because it costs too much from the UK. This is one exam0le of why UK businesses are having such a hard time. The internal market is tiny to compete with the whole of the EU. Switzerland has numerous trade deals with the EU. Its position is not comparable to the UK's. Switzerland is directly comparable to the UK because it's a third party country and is neither in the SM or CU. The situation regarding exporting anything to the EU is that they must satisfy the EU rules of origin regulations. If your colleague can't import parts from the UK it's because the supplier cannot provide the correct documentation to get it through the EU's checks - and can't be bothered to export to the EU because it's more trouble than it's worth. "Duty" is actually a very small charge but - as I said - the EU has weaponised the border and is using it to stop UK imports. It's basically just a matter of a trade war based on documentation. There probably isn't a country in the world that makes anything without components from China or Taiwan - and that includes the EU. It's just that the EU has decided to be difficult about imports from the UK - while we just let everything from the EU throigh regardless. THAT's the problem. It's about time we reciprocated - we have plenty of other markets to buy from. And we are one of the EU's most profitable export matkets. Time our govt grew some balls. Switzerland is in the Single Market. It also has multiple agreements as to tariff and duties. I already told you that. The rest of your post is your opinion based on the same level of misinformation. The issue of bike parts wasn't not bothering. It was too expensive to send from UK to the EU. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 18:57:20 GMT
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 2, 2023 21:39:07 GMT
Are Switzerland in the single market? Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals. www.gov.uk › eu-eea Countries in the EU and EEA - GOV.UK |
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Post by Steve on Jan 2, 2023 21:50:13 GMT
Well I'll believe the EU over a poorly updated page from the leave government about just who is in the EU's single market.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2023 21:57:05 GMT
Are Switzerland in the single market? Switzerland is not an EU or EEA member but is part of the single market. This means Swiss nationals have the same rights to live and work in the UK as other EEA nationals. www.gov.uk › eu-eea Countries in the EU and EEA - GOV.UK Correct. Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland are the 4 non EU countries in the single market. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 2, 2023 22:35:03 GMT
The UK was also offered this kind of relationship from outside the full membership of the EU and there was still a residue of the possibility of the UK being a non member of the SM and the Customs Union.
The UK rejected the offer.
The UK won't be reintegrated back into the EU on any level for many years. The discussion now in the UK is laughable. The EU would never readmit the country on any terms.
We would have to have a written Constitution and join the single currency.
But we knew what we voted for. Well some of us did.
Now we have to run faster to stay in the back of the pack. Even sovereign nations have to compromise. Sovereignty doesn't mean control. Something this former Empire can't understand.
Nor can some accept that "jam tomorrow" results in starvation.
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 3, 2023 7:27:55 GMT
Switzerland is directly comparable to the UK because it's a third party country and is neither in the SM or CU. The situation regarding exporting anything to the EU is that they must satisfy the EU rules of origin regulations. If your colleague can't import parts from the UK it's because the supplier cannot provide the correct documentation to get it through the EU's checks - and can't be bothered to export to the EU because it's more trouble than it's worth. "Duty" is actually a very small charge but - as I said - the EU has weaponised the border and is using it to stop UK imports. It's basically just a matter of a trade war based on documentation. There probably isn't a country in the world that makes anything without components from China or Taiwan - and that includes the EU. It's just that the EU has decided to be difficult about imports from the UK - while we just let everything from the EU throigh regardless. THAT's the problem. It's about time we reciprocated - we have plenty of other markets to buy from. And we are one of the EU's most profitable export matkets. Time our govt grew some balls. Switzerland is in the Single Market. It also has multiple agreements as to tariff and duties. I already told you that. The rest of your post is your opinion based on the same level of misinformation. The issue of bike parts wasn't not bothering. It was too expensive to send from UK to the EU. Very amusing to hear you talking about "misinformation". For a start Switzerland is NOT in the single market. If it were it wouldn't need any agreement on tariffs and duties - that's all covered by the SM agreement. Secondly its arrangement of having over 100 sectoral trade deals is LESS comprehensive than our own deal, which covers all goods. So you'd think that goods from Switzerland would qualify for more customs checks. As for it "becoming too expensive to send from the UK to the EU" it's not a matter of "expense". The problem that small companies (like a motorbike spare parts dealer) have is that the bureaucracy that the EU demand is not worth the bother - unless they're doing a large amount of trade. It's perfectly possible to rade freely with the EU but they would need to hire a consultant to advise them on the customs forms required, because the EU are playing hardball. |
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Post by Steve on Jan 3, 2023 10:39:38 GMT
Nail hit head ^
And the sad irony is Farage kept going on and on pre Brexit about how the EU was supposedly unfair to small businesses and then Brexit made it far far worse for so many of them
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Post by Vinny on Jan 3, 2023 10:52:21 GMT
Britain makes very little wholly within itself. It has for a long time assembled things it imports. Yes, but prior to our entry into the EEC we made loads. What was supposed to help our manufacturers find more markets killed them. |
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Post by Vinny on Jan 3, 2023 10:53:56 GMT
The UK was also offered this kind of relationship from outside the full membership of the EU and there was still a residue of the possibility of the UK being a non member of the SM and the Customs Union. The UK rejected the offer. The UK won't be reintegrated back into the EU on any level for many years. The discussion now in the UK is laughable. The EU would never readmit the country on any terms. We would have to have a written Constitution and join the single currency. But we knew what we voted for. Well some of us did. Now we have to run faster to stay in the back of the pack. Even sovereign nations have to compromise. Sovereignty doesn't mean control. Something this former Empire can't understand. Nor can some accept that "jam tomorrow" results in starvation. None of the EFTA countries are members of the Customs Union. They all have their own FTAs. |
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Post by oracle75 on Jan 3, 2023 10:58:20 GMT
Switzerland is in the Single Market. It also has multiple agreements as to tariff and duties. I already told you that. The rest of your post is your opinion based on the same level of misinformation. The issue of bike parts wasn't not bothering. It was too expensive to send from UK to the EU. Very amusing to hear you talking about "misinformation". For a start Switzerland is NOT in the single market. If it were it wouldn't need any agreement on tariffs and duties - that's all covered by the SM agreement. Secondly its arrangement of having over 100 sectoral trade deals is LESS comprehensive than our own deal, which covers all goods. So you'd think that goods from Switzerland would qualify for more customs checks. As for it "becoming too expensive to send from the UK to the EU" it's not a matter of "expense". The problem that small companies (like a motorbike spare parts dealer) have is that the bureaucracy that the EU demand is not worth the bother - unless they're doing a large amount of trade. It's perfectly possible to rade freely with the EU but they would need to hire a consultant to advise them on the customs forms required, because the EU are playing hardball. s the European Union a customs union? The EU Customs Union, established in 1968, makes it easier for EU companies to trade, harmonises customs duties on goods from outside the EU and helps to protect Europe's citizens, animals and the environment. european-union.europa.eu › ... Customs - European Union What are the key elements of the EU single market? The cornerstones of the single market are often said to be the “four freedoms” – the free movement of people, goods, services and capital. These freedoms are embedded in the European Union's treaties and form the basis of the Single Market legislative framework. www.cece.eu › european-sin... European Single Market - cece.eu The first details the trading relationship with non EU countries. The second is the rules within it. 4 non EU countries have made special arrangements to be included in the single market . I am finished here. Do your own research.i won't spend time discussing this with those at kindergarten level. If they aren't clear about such fundamental concepts, either pré or post Brexit, they never will. Thank you Steve for your self appointed role as arbitrator. You seem confused too. So since the issue is not now important, I am moving on. |
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