|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2024 16:02:45 GMT
If you reduced immigration to something the British public would find reasonable, then the policy of releasing greenbelt land becomes 'arguable' rather than merely an abusive policy If you reduced immigration to what the public want we wouldn't need more housing as population growth is only happening due to immigration.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 16:08:55 GMT
You think the land owners are influencing the politicians? Hmm, next you'll say money doesn't influence them either. Land owners are influencing all politicians to block construction? - seems a bit of a stretch when you consider there are numerous other groups peddling their influence and they do not always align in their desired outcomes. Land owners are not the ones who have got the politicians to implement layer upon layer of red tape specifically designed to prevent the building of anything. My opinion is that they are doing just as I suggest, that keeping land prices high is the game. Look at the last governments scheme to help first time buyers. Did they relax planning law? Compulsory purchase fields? No they just guaranteed ever bigger mortgages.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 16:10:37 GMT
If you reduced immigration to something the British public would find reasonable, then the policy of releasing greenbelt land becomes 'arguable' rather than merely an abusive policy If you reduced immigration to what the public want we wouldn't need more housing as population growth is only happening due to immigration. We would still need to make up the current short fall, about a million people wanting a home who can't get one.
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2024 16:18:34 GMT
2 If you reduced immigration to something the British public would find reasonable, then the policy of releasing greenbelt land becomes 'arguable' rather than merely an abusive policy I'll give you one guess what Labour would do? Here is a hint - they aren't remotely going to reduce immigration. Unless you intend to keep Africans safely in open fields, I don't get your safety vs housing comment. 3 What is your argument against making people pay at the gate? Public policy is supposed to benefit the country, it isn't supposed to be charity operation for landowners and Africans. 4 It can do to some extent. However, if you also pour millions of Africans in, it wont work like that except in the negative sense - ie land prices will be low because the uk will be a total tip2, No, we already need those homes for the people living here. We are about a million short. And its not just about enough homes its about making them affordable like they used to be when we bought our first homes. That would be the single biggest thing we could do for our economy, free up all the money that currently goes in mortgages for people to spend on life. 3, That we get some wealthy but unpleasant people moving here, people who expect something back for their investment. Plus if we are to allow anyone in it should only be ones we need for jobs that can't be filled. 4, ONE LAST TIME. I am not suggesting we build houses so we can move Africa in. I want them for the millions we have already invited to live here and the children of Brits already living here. 2 That's all fine, dandy and laudable, but 'releasing the greenbelt' will not reduce immigration - and so, it seems to me you only have half of a coherent policy on the table. 3 Which is one step up from getting large numbers poor but unpleasant people (as we have currently). Do we not have enough poor people in the country already? - we have added about 10 million (official figures). The monies collected by my scheme (perhaps several billion a year) could be used to provide some the services and infrastructure you feel are needed without damaging the economy with taxes - and yet you are against this. 4 You aren't explicitly advocating it, but the fact that you are suggesting one half of that coherent policy regardless of the other side being implemented, means you are in fact advocating doing one without the other.
|
|
|
Post by Orac on Nov 3, 2024 16:21:42 GMT
If you reduced immigration to what the public want we wouldn't need more housing as population growth is only happening due to immigration. We would still need to make up the current short fall, about a million people wanting a home who can't get one. But you have made the problem smaller (stopped increasing it) This is the logical first step.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2024 16:22:01 GMT
Land owners are influencing all politicians to block construction? - seems a bit of a stretch when you consider there are numerous other groups peddling their influence and they do not always align in their desired outcomes. Land owners are not the ones who have got the politicians to implement layer upon layer of red tape specifically designed to prevent the building of anything. My opinion is that they are doing just as I suggest, that keeping land prices high is the game. Look at the last governments scheme to help first time buyers. Did they relax planning law? Compulsory purchase fields? No they just guaranteed ever bigger mortgages. Well they tried relaxing planning Laws and ran into the same roadblock as every other government that has tried - the people do not want it and vote accordingly. We cannot build housing, railways, power stations, infrastructure or even a reservoir as subsequent governments over the years have enacted one set of red tape after another which gives numerous opportunities for those opposed to block development. Most of that red tape now being environmental based - we must protect some obscure Moth or Beetle. A recent example being the nutrient neutrality rules that were blocking the building of a 100,000 homes. The last Government tried to scrap them but this was thwarted by a campaign in the Lords led by Labour.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 3, 2024 16:22:27 GMT
If you reduced immigration to what the public want we wouldn't need more housing as population growth is only happening due to immigration. We would still need to make up the current short fall, about a million people wanting a home who can't get one. that would take 5 years and the problem is solved.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 16:41:57 GMT
2, No, we already need those homes for the people living here. We are about a million short. And its not just about enough homes its about making them affordable like they used to be when we bought our first homes. That would be the single biggest thing we could do for our economy, free up all the money that currently goes in mortgages for people to spend on life. 3, That we get some wealthy but unpleasant people moving here, people who expect something back for their investment. Plus if we are to allow anyone in it should only be ones we need for jobs that can't be filled. 4, ONE LAST TIME. I am not suggesting we build houses so we can move Africa in. I want them for the millions we have already invited to live here and the children of Brits already living here. 2 That's all fine, dandy and laudable, but 'releasing the greenbelt' will not reduce immigration - and so, it seems to me you only have half of a coherent policy on the table. 3 Which is one step up from getting large numbers poor but unpleasant people (as we have currently). Do we not have enough poor people in the country already? - we have added about 10 million (official figures). The monies collected by my scheme (perhaps several billion a year) could be used to provide some the services and infrastructure you feel are needed without damaging the economy with taxes - and yet you are against this. 4 You aren't explicitly advocating it, but the fact that you are suggesting one half of that coherent policy regardless of the other side being implemented, means you are in fact advocating doing one without the other. 2, Well I didn't say it would solve immigration policy. Indeed I listed the issues and pointed out that it would need a giant thread of its own. 3, I'm not the one suggesting we bring more in. That's you. 4, Not at all. I can propose a way of fixing the car without it meaning I don't think the roof needs to be repaired.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 16:44:22 GMT
We would still need to make up the current short fall, about a million people wanting a home who can't get one. that would take 5 years and the problem is solved. Apart from the cost factor. The reason 6% interest rates are crippling the economy is that mortgages are £350,000 quid.
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 3, 2024 17:10:43 GMT
My opinion is that they are doing just as I suggest, that keeping land prices high is the game. Look at the last governments scheme to help first time buyers. Did they relax planning law? Compulsory purchase fields? No they just guaranteed ever bigger mortgages. Well they tried relaxing planning Laws and ran into the same roadblock as every other government that has tried - the people do not want it and vote accordingly. We cannot build housing, railways, power stations, infrastructure or even a reservoir as subsequent governments over the years have enacted one set of red tape after another which gives numerous opportunities for those opposed to block development. Most of that red tape now being environmental based - we must protect some obscure Moth or Beetle. A recent example being the nutrient neutrality rules that were blocking the building of a 100,000 homes. The last Government tried to scrap them but this was thwarted by a campaign in the Lords led by Labour. We don't have a housing problem, we have an over population problem and we can't build our way out of it.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2024 17:28:06 GMT
We don't have a housing problem, we have an over population problem and we can't build our way out of it. It's surprising how frequently that simple and obvious truth gets ignored in discussions like this one.
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 17:35:02 GMT
Well they tried relaxing planning Laws and ran into the same roadblock as every other government that has tried - the people do not want it and vote accordingly. We cannot build housing, railways, power stations, infrastructure or even a reservoir as subsequent governments over the years have enacted one set of red tape after another which gives numerous opportunities for those opposed to block development. Most of that red tape now being environmental based - we must protect some obscure Moth or Beetle. A recent example being the nutrient neutrality rules that were blocking the building of a 100,000 homes. The last Government tried to scrap them but this was thwarted by a campaign in the Lords led by Labour. We don't have a housing problem, we have an over population problem and we can't build our way out of it. I only wish to accommodate those who already here. What do you propose?
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 17:35:39 GMT
We don't have a housing problem, we have an over population problem and we can't build our way out of it. It's surprising how frequently that simple and obvious truth gets ignored in discussions like this one. Oh Dan you're more intelligent than that.
|
|
|
Post by Dan Dare on Nov 3, 2024 17:40:13 GMT
Given that the migrant and migrant-descended population, legal and illegal, is now close to or perhaps already over 17 million, how many of them do you believe we (the host population) have an obligation to provide accommodation for? 100%? Fewer?
Is there some cut-off point beyond which you would agree that no such obligation exists?
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Nov 3, 2024 18:03:25 GMT
Given that the migrant and migrant-descended population, legal and illegal, is now close to or perhaps already over 17 million, how many of them do you believe we (the host population) have an obligation to provide accommodation for? 100%? Fewer? Is there some cut-off point beyond which you would agree that no such obligation exists? As I said I want accommodation for people living here. I have stated a hundred times that I don't want anymore immigration. I separate legal from illegal migrants as they are very different things with very different solutions and very different numbers. We have obligation to provide for homes for the UK population. WE invited those who live here. We don't have to invite more.
|
|