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Post by Pacifico on Nov 1, 2024 8:12:32 GMT
But let's throw you haters a bone: Yes, there are too many people employed in non-jobs in the public sector while departments that actually provide front line services are often starved of resources. Mine is one such: We have more people monitoring what we do than we have to actually do it.
And that's the structural issue with the public sector as I see it. And the MoD have more Civil Servants than we have Soldiers in the Army... |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 1, 2024 8:21:11 GMT
You've already admitted that you coasted for ten years whilst ''enduring'' a wage freeze Where did I say that?
Oh yes, I didn't - you made it up. Just like the rest of the drivel that you're posting.
You've forgotten ? You posted it here I was ten years off my pension. I was a supervisor at the top of my pay scale. I have other sources of income. I had no mortgage. And my wife has a well paid job.
So I could afford to say: "Fuck it" and sit it out until my earliest possible retirement date and my (admittedly decent) pension. |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 1, 2024 8:22:44 GMT
A Tesco shelf stacker produces a product... The shop worker doesn't make a product, they provide a service. Without the retail worker to set out the store there is no product to buy |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 1, 2024 8:25:08 GMT
As someone who has has recourse to phone HMRC several times this year (and has sat in my accountants office four times to see if a double edged approach might get some progress - failed ), once ( and if) you get through and aren't cut off you talk to someone who is utterly clueless and just parrots ''it's all on line'' (on line doesn't work ) and who shouldn't be anywhere near a ''customer'' help line. Professionals have to use the same line. My accountant tells me that if they call twenty times they might get one staff member who is reasonably competent to answer HMRC queries , no more than that. Yet your blinkers prevent you from seeing the obvious. Real terms pay cuts over a prolonged period is making it harder for them to recruit staff of a sufficient calibre. That's what my friend has told me is a chronic problem in the DWP so it is as likely to be the case in the HMRC. You get what you pay for. Ah bless - your public sector ''friends '' again who parrot the standard union/public sector mantra that they are underpaid , overworked and understaffed . |
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Post by ratcliff on Nov 1, 2024 8:34:21 GMT
Yet your blinkers prevent you from seeing the obvious. Real terms pay cuts over a prolonged period is making it harder for them to recruit staff of a sufficient calibre. That's what my friend has told me is a chronic problem in the DWP so it is as likely to be the case in the HMRC. You get what you pay for.Train drivers just got a £10k a year increase with no changes to working agreements or productivity levels. The whole £10 Billion raised by the increase in NI announced in the budget will go to Public Sector workers as increased pay (without strings) - so taking money from Private Sector workers and giving it to those in the Public Sector. Productivity in the Public Sector is has stagnated for almost 3 decades - and all the while spending has increased massively. So if you are expecting to see any improvement in delivery from the public Sector I suspect you are going to be mightily disappointed.  Tube will be going out on strike yet again over the next couple of weeks . For the next twelve days, commuters who regularly use London's tube network will have to plan their journey ahead of time as strikes are set to heavily impact the capital's transport systems.Workers will walk out between November 1 and November 12 in a dispute over pay despite TfL bosses putting forward what they say is a 'fair' deal that will see wages rise an average of 4.6 per cent.
Trade union Aslef - representing thousands of Tube drivers, who are paid at least £63,000 a year - has ordered 24-hour walkouts on November 7 and November 12.The RMT union has also said swathes of maintenance and emergency staff will go on strike between November 1 and November 8 amidst a 'wholly inadequate' pay offer.......The average Tube driver salary as of November last year was £63,901, according to a freedom of information response issued by TfL, though thousands are paid in excess of £70,000.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14028557/Labours-tax-GOING-work-misery-commuters-Keir-Starmer-orders-Sadiq-Khan-hike-Tube-rail-fares-higher-year-ahead-strikes.html |
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 1, 2024 8:51:08 GMT
Agree. I've worked in the public sector and see swathes of money wasted on shirkers. It's bordering on criminal. Trim the fat and wastage, up productivity. This poor, undproductive methodology wouldn't survive a week in the private sector. Wait, you want to sack a third of all nurses and doctors, a third of all teachers, a third of all probation officers and social workers and DWP employees, and make the rest work harder? As someone who includes two very hard working public sector workers amongst my friends I know you are talking shite. I never said that. Trim the fat alludes to money spending jobs that have no value or little worth but rake in larger incomes than those at the coal face. It's not necessarily about coalface employees on lower rungs (with good perks mind), bot moreover governments being raped over tendering contracts, holding one's performance/behaviour/actions to accountability over their performance/attitude/behaviour in a job that would have had them flung out of a job yesterday. They are Too scared to be sued from some poxy HR vexatious claim. The public sector is awash with employers who rinse it for money on vexatious human right claims about their workplace environment. They are a protected speccy compared to the private sector and are nowhere near as productive as most private sector employees. No private company would ever survive as a business displaying the financial wastage and incompetence those in the public sector employ. I've seen it first hand on way more than one occasion. It isn't shit, it's fact. |
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 1, 2024 9:03:34 GMT
Nigel's comments on the budget, is he right? A fox in the henhouse. |
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 1, 2024 9:09:51 GMT
A Tesco shelf stacker produces a product... The shop worker doesn't make a product, they provide a service. If that service wasn't provided they'd be no sale. Hence they are productive. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2024 10:13:27 GMT
Yet your blinkers prevent you from seeing the obvious. Real terms pay cuts over a prolonged period is making it harder for them to recruit staff of a sufficient calibre. That's what my friend has told me is a chronic problem in the DWP so it is as likely to be the case in the HMRC. You get what you pay for.Train drivers just got a £10k a year increase with no changes to working agreements or productivity levels. The whole £10 Billion raised by the increase in NI announced in the budget will go to Public Sector workers as increased pay (without strings) - so taking money from Private Sector workers and giving it to those in the Public Sector. Productivity in the Public Sector is has stagnated for almost 3 decades - and all the while spending has increased massively. So if you are expecting to see any improvement in delivery from the public Sector I suspect you are going to be mightily disappointed. Public sector pay has been cut by 20 percent in real terms in the last 14 years. You don't get higher productivity that way. Pay rises in line with inflation should not be dependent upon higher productivity. Real terms pay increases above inflation should be, unless after years of de facto pay cuts higher pay is needed to recruit and retain sufficient staff of sufficient calibre. This notion that just to maintain real terms pay at current levels, fewer employees need to be doing ever more work to an ever greater extent year on year might sound great if you are the vastly overpaid CEO. But it is not a recipe for prosperity for the rest of us, though it will be a driver of greatly increased mental health problems resulting from stress. Which will itself cost the country a fortune. The equation you seem to have in your head is in real terms all workers getting less than the year before for doing the same work, or doing more than the year before to get the same pay. Sounds great to a wealthy retiree I suppose but would result in an ever more impoverished and over stressed workforce. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2024 10:15:39 GMT
Where did I say that?
Oh yes, I didn't - you made it up. Just like the rest of the drivel that you're posting.
You've forgotten ? You posted it here I was ten years off my pension. I was a supervisor at the top of my pay scale. I have other sources of income. I had no mortgage. And my wife has a well paid job.
So I could afford to say: "Fuck it" and sit it out until my earliest possible retirement date and my (admittedly decent) pension.I don't see him saying that he has been coasting for the last ten years. Seems you made that up but tis typical of the drivel you post. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2024 10:35:50 GMT
Wait, you want to sack a third of all nurses and doctors, a third of all teachers, a third of all probation officers and social workers and DWP employees, and make the rest work harder? As someone who includes two very hard working public sector workers amongst my friends I know you are talking shite. I never said that. Trim the fat alludes to money spending jobs that have no value or little worth but rake in larger incomes than those at the coal face. It's not necessarily about coalface employees on lower rungs (with good perks mind), bot moreover governments being raped over tendering contracts, holding one's performance/behaviour/actions to accountability over their performance/attitude/behaviour in a job that would have had them flung out of a job yesterday. They are Too scared to be sued from some poxy HR vexatious claim. The public sector is awash with employers who rinse it for money on vexatious human right claims about their workplace environment. They are a protected speccy compared to the private sector and are nowhere near as productive as most private sector employees. No private company would ever survive as a business displaying the financial wastage and incompetence those in the public sector employ. I've seen it first hand on way more than one occasion. It isn't shit, it's fact. Well my friend who works for the DWP who used to work alongside me in the private sector is one of the most hardworking and productive people I have ever known. Sorry if that does not fit your assumptions. She has told me what her job entails and it is a much tougher job than manning a checkout at Tesco. And believe me or not she does not lie to me about such things. If her job was an absolute doddle she might not advertise that fact publicly but she would be honest with me. As for wastage, that often results from people at the top of the food chain conjuring up ideas that are shite in practice on the shop floor. And believe me that happens in the private sector too. It is for example rife in Tesco. I see wastage all the time but such decisions are forced upon us higher up than store level, and the managers at store level just do what they are told because they get no brownie points for making difficulties even about stupid shit. Just one example from my store. Although it is starting to pick up a bit now as November 5th approaches, we have been paying a member of staff to man the firework stall all day which is situated right next to the self service tills which are themselves manned by two people wearing headsets. And who can thus request additional support when they need it. Yet the guy or girl manning the firework stall has been getting as few as one customer per hour, and they are spending most of their time standing around doing bugger all and bored witless. Now all of us have been firework trained and we can see that until customer volume picks up it makes far more sense to have one of the self service staff sell the fireworks on the rare occasion a customer wants to buy some rather than pay someone to stand around doing bugger all all day. But alas someone at head office thinks its a good idea. So there we have it. Just one example of wastage. I just never understand why management anywhere doesn't get this but if you want to know how to reduce wastage on the shopfloor, consult the staff working on it. Because we see where the wastage is happening all day long. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 1, 2024 10:41:44 GMT
Where did I say that?
Oh yes, I didn't - you made it up. Just like the rest of the drivel that you're posting.
You've forgotten ? You posted it here I was ten years off my pension. I was a supervisor at the top of my pay scale. I have other sources of income. I had no mortgage. And my wife has a well paid job.
So I could afford to say: "Fuck it" and sit it out until my earliest possible retirement date and my (admittedly decent) pension.And again, where did I say that I "Coasted"? I didn't. On the contrary, as our staff were depleted the rest of us were required to work ever harder to cover the shortfall, causing even more to leave. As I did say, I was nearer the end than the beginning so it was easier for me to ride it out. That's not the same as saying it was easy or that I coasted. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2024 10:43:15 GMT
Yet your blinkers prevent you from seeing the obvious. Real terms pay cuts over a prolonged period is making it harder for them to recruit staff of a sufficient calibre. That's what my friend has told me is a chronic problem in the DWP so it is as likely to be the case in the HMRC. You get what you pay for. Ah bless - your public sector ''friends '' again who parrot the standard union/public sector mantra that they are underpaid , overworked and understaffed . Well my friends are far more reliable and honest than you are, informed as you seem to be more by malice than actual experience. You complain about the shite service you get from HMRC. And your solution is to sack a load of them and pay the rest even less. And yet you labour under the comical delusion that this will somehow make things better. Laughable drivel. If the public sector is such an easy place to work and so much better than the private, I really do need to ask the obvious question. Why are you not working in it? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 1, 2024 10:45:39 GMT
The shop worker doesn't make a product, they provide a service. If that service wasn't provided they'd be no sale. Hence they are productive. In the same way that without the public sector there'd be no schools, NHS, armed forces, emergency services, rubbish collection, street sweeping, actual streets or indeed any of the infrastructure that you take for granted. So by that token, the public sector is also productive. |
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Post by buccaneer on Nov 1, 2024 11:07:33 GMT
I never said that. Trim the fat alludes to money spending jobs that have no value or little worth but rake in larger incomes than those at the coal face. It's not necessarily about coalface employees on lower rungs (with good perks mind), bot moreover governments being raped over tendering contracts, holding one's performance/behaviour/actions to accountability over their performance/attitude/behaviour in a job that would have had them flung out of a job yesterday. They are Too scared to be sued from some poxy HR vexatious claim. The public sector is awash with employers who rinse it for money on vexatious human right claims about their workplace environment. They are a protected speccy compared to the private sector and are nowhere near as productive as most private sector employees. No private company would ever survive as a business displaying the financial wastage and incompetence those in the public sector employ. I've seen it first hand on way more than one occasion. It isn't shit, it's fact. Well my friend who works for the DWP who used to work alongside me in the private sector is one of the most hardworking and productive people I have ever known. Sorry if that does not fit your assumptions. She has told me what her job entails and it is a much tougher job than manning a checkout at Tesco. And believe me or not she does not lie to me about such things. If her job was an absolute doddle she might not advertise that fact publicly but she would be honest with me. As for wastage, that often results from people at the top of the food chain conjuring up ideas that are shite in practice on the shop floor. And believe me that happens in the private sector too. It is for example rife in Tesco. I see wastage all the time but such decisions are forced upon us higher up than store level, and the managers at store level just do what they are told because they get no brownie points for making difficulties even about stupid shit. Just one example from my store. Although it is starting to pick up a bit now as November 5th approaches, we have been paying a member of staff to man the firework stall all day which is situated right next to the self service tills which are themselves manned by two people wearing headsets. And who can thus request additional support when they need it. Yet the guy or girl manning the firework stall has been getting as few as one customer per hour, and they are spending most of their time standing around doing bugger all and bored witless. Now all of us have been firework trained and we can see that until customer volume picks up it makes far more sense to have one of the self service staff sell the fireworks on the rare occasion a customer wants to buy some rather than pay someone to stand around doing bugger all all day. But alas someone at head office thinks its a good idea. So there we have it. Just one example of wastage. I just never understand why management anywhere doesn't get this but if you want to know how to reduce wastage on the shopfloor, consult the staff working on it. Because we see where the wastage is happening all day long. You still don't get it. Doesn't matter what your anecdotal evidence is. For every 2 of her there is probably at least 1 bludger who is carried by the likes of her, or who even earns double her salary and produces next to nothing. You speak as though my lived experience means every single soul who works in the public sector should be thrown on the scrap heap. Which of course, is completely silly. Yes, Tescos may waste food, not sure how that relates to money exactly, or even compared to profits, but is a possibility. Yet, your average SME cannot afford such wastage when compared to Tescos, and Tescos cannot afford such wastage compared to the public sector. |
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