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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 15, 2024 21:34:32 GMT
What's delusinal is to deny the fact that Labour attracted more votes than any other political party, in England, in Scotland and in Wales, and that is why they are now the governing party with a large majority. The Conservative Party was reduced to 121 seats on a vote share of 23.7%, the worst result in its history. In Scotland the Scottish National Party was reduced from forty-eight seats to nine and lost its status as the third-largest party in the Commons. The main cause of this unusual result in England and Wales was the fact that instead of three major political parties, we had four, and Reform UK distorted the final result by ataining more votes than the Lib Dems. In Scotland I guess too many people believe that the SNP are a divided party and corrupt and returned back to Labour. Yes - the result is unusual, but it was a fair win for Labour under the system we have got, the bottom line is that more people voted Labour than Tory, its that simple Indeed, but no one will be more concerned about the shallow depth of the Labour 'landslide', than Labour. Starmer won with 30% of the vote, in 2019 Corbyn lost with 40%. Yes, Corbyn was more popular than Starmer. Labour didn't win because they're popular, the election was handed to Starmer because people were fed up with the Tories, it was the most loveless election victory in living memory and Labour know it. Reform UK will change the political landscape, of course you will scoff, to be expected. But the fact is the vast majority of people are sick to death of having their concerns over immigration ignored. They are sick of being shouted down as racists for questioning the illegal invasion. You will be thrilled at the prospect of five years of a pro EU pro immigration Labour government, but I kid you not, in five years time support for Reform UK will be massive. |
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Post by witchfinder on Oct 15, 2024 21:54:44 GMT
Or will Reform UK simply split the "Right" vote and continue to allow either a Labour government OR a Labour / Lib Dem coalition.
Its a real conundrum for the Tory Party, some say co-operate with Reform UK, or even amalgamate, which would upset a lot of traditional Tory voters and some MPs, or try to defeat them.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 15, 2024 22:21:47 GMT
Or will Reform UK simply split the "Right" vote and continue to allow either a Labour government OR a Labour / Lib Dem coalition. Its a real conundrum for the Tory Party, some say co-operate with Reform UK, or even amalgamate, which would upset a lot of traditional Tory voters and some MPs, or try to defeat them. I doubt that it would upset many traditional Tory voters. We can't wait for the party to return to proper Conservative values. But I doubt that will ever happen and Reform will fill the gap where the Conservative Party used to be. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 15, 2024 22:23:58 GMT
Indeed, but no one will be more concerned about the shallow depth of the Labour 'landslide', than Labour. Starmer won with 30% of the vote, in 2019 Corbyn lost with 40%. Yes, Corbyn was more popular than Starmer. Labour didn't win because they're popular, the election was handed to Starmer because people were fed up with the Tories, it was the most loveless election victory in living memory and Labour know it. Don't think that many would disagree with that analysis. Reform UK will change the political landscape, of course you will scoff, to be expected. But the fact is the vast majority of people are sick to death of having their concerns over immigration ignored. They are sick of being shouted down as racists for questioning the illegal invasion. You will be thrilled at the prospect of five years of a pro EU pro immigration Labour government, but I kid you not, in five years time support for Reform UK will be massive. Reform's motive was clear - to destroy the Tories. You got exactly what you voted for. The Tories have 5 years to recover. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 15, 2024 22:28:33 GMT
Or will Reform UK simply split the "Right" vote and continue to allow either a Labour government OR a Labour / Lib Dem coalition. Its a real conundrum for the Tory Party, some say co-operate with Reform UK, or even amalgamate, which would upset a lot of traditional Tory voters and some MPs, or try to defeat them. How can Reform split the right when there is no 'right'? Since 2010 the Tories have been centrist, we've had Cameron, May, Johnson and Sunak, non of them were centre right Conservatives. Where is this 'right' you speak of? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 15, 2024 22:35:57 GMT
Reform's motive was clear - to destroy the Tories. You got exactly what you voted for. The Tories have 5 years to recover. I have say, and it's with a heavy heart, I agree. I'm a Tory who voted Reform. But the Tories were the architects of the own demise. Labour weren't good, they won because the Tories were bad. I don't think the Tories will recover, not over the next five years, and that's because the opposition cant change anything. Over the next five years we will, in my opinion, see the Tory opposition promise the world, Labour ignoring the majority, and Reform UK growing. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 15, 2024 22:39:01 GMT
Indeed, but no one will be more concerned about the shallow depth of the Labour 'landslide', than Labour. Starmer won with 30% of the vote, in 2019 Corbyn lost with 40%. Yes, Corbyn was more popular than Starmer. Labour didn't win because they're popular, the election was handed to Starmer because people were fed up with the Tories, it was the most loveless election victory in living memory and Labour know it. Don't think that many would disagree with that analysis. Reform UK will change the political landscape, of course you will scoff, to be expected. But the fact is the vast majority of people are sick to death of having their concerns over immigration ignored. They are sick of being shouted down as racists for questioning the illegal invasion. You will be thrilled at the prospect of five years of a pro EU pro immigration Labour government, but I kid you not, in five years time support for Reform UK will be massive. Reform's motive was clear - to destroy the Tories. You got exactly what you voted for. The Tories have 5 years to recover. The Tories destroyed themselves. Reform just delivered the coup de grace. The Tories are over. |
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Post by witchfinder on Oct 15, 2024 22:47:25 GMT
Or will Reform UK simply split the "Right" vote and continue to allow either a Labour government OR a Labour / Lib Dem coalition. Its a real conundrum for the Tory Party, some say co-operate with Reform UK, or even amalgamate, which would upset a lot of traditional Tory voters and some MPs, or try to defeat them. How can Reform split the right when there is no 'right'? Since 2010 the Tories have been centrist, we've had Cameron, May, Johnson and Sunak, non of them were centre right Conservatives. Where is this 'right' you speak of? The previous Conservative government was Right of centre / moderate (John Major), a proponent of compasionate capitalism, and the EU, and Margaret Thatcher would have detested the caustic rhetoric of right wing populism with its unbritish attacks on immigrants and foreigners. Edward Heath was a moderate, as was all of the great British Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century, Harold MacMillan etc. Nigel Farage and his band of merry men are a far cry away from traditional Conservative values, and a lot of traditional Tory voters would puke at the thought of such people been in positions of power. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 15, 2024 22:48:47 GMT
The Tories destroyed themselves. Reform just delivered the coup de grace. The Tories are over. I'm sure you're right insomuch as the Tories got complacent, I think they almost expected to be in government. But they're not over. It maybe the well deserved slap they need. And I don't think Farage wants to destroy the Tories, deep down he is a centre right Tory. Five years is a long time looking forwards, but at some point in the future I can see Reform UK and a centre right Tory party working together. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 15, 2024 22:50:59 GMT
How can Reform split the right when there is no 'right'? Since 2010 the Tories have been centrist, we've had Cameron, May, Johnson and Sunak, non of them were centre right Conservatives. Where is this 'right' you speak of? The previous Conservative government was Right of centre / moderate (John Major), a proponent of compasionate capitalism, and the EU, and Margaret Thatcher would have detested the caustic rhetoric of right wing populism with its unbritish attacks on immigrants and foreigners. Edward Heath was a moderate, as was all of the great British Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century, Harold MacMillan etc. Nigel Farage and his band of merry men are a far cry away from traditional Conservative values, and a lot of traditional Tory voters would puke at the thought of such people been in positions of power. LOL!🤣 |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 15, 2024 23:11:02 GMT
The previous Conservative government was Right of centre / moderate (John Major), a proponent of compasionate capitalism, and the EU, and Margaret Thatcher would have detested the caustic rhetoric of right wing populism with its unbritish attacks on immigrants and foreigners. Edward Heath was a moderate, as was all of the great British Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century, Harold MacMillan etc. Nigel Farage and his band of merry men are a far cry away from traditional Conservative values, and a lot of traditional Tory voters would puke at the thought of such people been in positions of power. Sunak's government was not centre right, it may arguably have been a fraction right of centre but you would be hard pressed to squeeze a fag paper between Tory and Labour policy, the Tories may not have been quite as openly pro EU as Labour, but make no mistake, they were quietly pro EU. As for Heath, good heavens, my lasting memory of Heath... he was very pro Europe and without a referendum he signed us up to the EEC, yes I know, two years later we got a referendum and voted to remain in the EEC. Which was good, sadly from 1975 to 1992 the EEC quietly morphed from a non political non centralised trade area, to a very political and very centralised political union. Which is why John (The Bastard) Major refused a referendum when he signed Maastricht the instrument that handed the UK to the EU in 1992, an act of treason he should have been prosecuted for. People have been laughing at Farage for 30 years, but few people have enjoyed his success. I remember in 2016 when he told the EU parliament, you aint laughing now, lol, and he was right. Farage is a very competent operator who behind closed doors the Tories and Labour fear, if they have any sense. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 15, 2024 23:14:40 GMT
Indeed, but no one will be more concerned about the shallow depth of the Labour 'landslide', than Labour. Starmer won with 30% of the vote, in 2019 Corbyn lost with 40%. Yes, Corbyn was more popular than Starmer. Labour didn't win because they're popular, the election was handed to Starmer because people were fed up with the Tories, it was the most loveless election victory in living memory and Labour know it. Don't think that many would disagree with that analysis. Reform UK will change the political landscape, of course you will scoff, to be expected. But the fact is the vast majority of people are sick to death of having their concerns over immigration ignored. They are sick of being shouted down as racists for questioning the illegal invasion. You will be thrilled at the prospect of five years of a pro EU pro immigration Labour government, but I kid you not, in five years time support for Reform UK will be massive. Reform's motive was clear - to destroy the Tories. You got exactly what you voted for. The Tories have 5 years to recover. Harsh but fair. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 16, 2024 6:09:34 GMT
How can Reform split the right when there is no 'right'? Since 2010 the Tories have been centrist, we've had Cameron, May, Johnson and Sunak, non of them were centre right Conservatives. Where is this 'right' you speak of? The previous Conservative government was Right of centre / moderate (John Major), a proponent of compasionate capitalism, and the EU, and Margaret Thatcher would have detested the caustic rhetoric of right wing populism with its unbritish attacks on immigrants and foreigners. Edward Heath was a moderate, as was all of the great British Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century, Harold MacMillan etc. Nigel Farage and his band of merry men are a far cry away from traditional Conservative values, and a lot of traditional Tory voters would puke at the thought of such people been in positions of power. Have you got examples of those unBritish attacks on immigrants and foreigners that comes from the right wing populism. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 16, 2024 6:11:22 GMT
Or will Reform UK simply split the "Right" vote and continue to allow either a Labour government OR a Labour / Lib Dem coalition. Its a real conundrum for the Tory Party, some say co-operate with Reform UK, or even amalgamate, which would upset a lot of traditional Tory voters and some MPs, or try to defeat them. So labours great hope for staying in power is that reform split the right in england , ( similarly the independence movement remains split in scotland) and labour fall into power time and again with 80% of the overall electorate not supporting them? Wow. What a fucking future . This shows why your party is not fit to be in govenment. No clue , no hope , no vision , just reliance on an anti democratic system and bumbling along in power enjoying the ride at our expense. You really are shysters of the highest order. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 16, 2024 6:22:48 GMT
How can Reform split the right when there is no 'right'? Since 2010 the Tories have been centrist, we've had Cameron, May, Johnson and Sunak, non of them were centre right Conservatives. Where is this 'right' you speak of? The previous Conservative government was Right of centre / moderate (John Major), a proponent of compasionate capitalism, and the EU, and Margaret Thatcher would have detested the caustic rhetoric of right wing populism with its unbritish attacks on immigrants and foreigners. Edward Heath was a moderate, as was all of the great British Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century, Harold MacMillan etc. Nigel Farage and his band of merry men are a far cry away from traditional Conservative values, and a lot of traditional Tory voters would puke at the thought of such people been in positions of power. Ive said for years that the Labour Party , Tony Blairs behaviour in power last time around , flooding the uk with migrants from Eastern Europe from 2004 onwards , was a large reason behind brexit in 2016. Labour didnt listen , they thought they knew best , as they so often do , and planted the seeds that were to grow massively much to their disdain. This article here explains in part why labour were responsible for the rise in UKIP. It's from 2013 , and is a devastating critique of the party and what it became under the blairities . I agree with Red Rackham and many others. The English , like us Scottish , have had enough of the Westminster party. When ordinary average middle ground voters flock to vote reform uk in england , because of starmers behaviour in power , and the centrist right vacuum that the tories have become out of power , dont say you havent been warned... wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-are-to-blame-for-ukip/#more-33702im calling it now. I think reform uk are going to be either king makers in a hung uk parliament come the next general election , or the largest party. Screaming "far right" in horror to the English isnt going to wash anymore than screaming "tartan tories " or ethno nationalists" did against the snp in scotland. |
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