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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 17, 2024 13:15:22 GMT
So why did the Tories do so well in 2019 when immigration was high? If immigration is the reason for the Tory fall (and I don't entirely go with that theory, although it's a factor), why was this failure rewarded previously, and what snapped between 2019 and 2024? My theory is they are trying to pander to the votes for those who want lower migration, but realise that both from a workforce point of view and from an economic point of view immigration is needed. The Tories were advocating something they knew they couldn't do. It didn't matter who was in charge, there was still going to be a lot of migration. I think we'd both agree it was too high, and reducing it is the right thing to do. I think some people thought that Brexit would stop immigration, I've no idea why as the leave campaign never claimed that, but it did change where people came from, for better or worse. What happened between 2019 was quite clear to me. Boris promised 40 new hospitals, which was an exaggeration and then got delayed. Public services are now a joke, court delays are years, driving tests are years, nhs waiting lists are years, housing lists are years, planning is years, crime is rampant but prisons are full with no plans for expansion such as we have to have an early release scheme... People want competent government. Neither Boris nor Truss were able to deliver that. People voted against Sunak, including yourself, so we'll not know what he may have done in the long term. Fwiw i think he would have been an improvement on his 2 predecessors. People wanted a change. Yes, immigration is an issue, but to say that it was the only factor I feel is missing the point. I put 2019 down to the Boris factor, unfortunately Boris let us down on more than one front: Immigration and 'getting Brexit done'. Tory voters got fed up with being lied to. As for immigration, yes some immigration is needed. What we don't need are hundreds of thousands of low skilled/no skilled immigrants who bring nothing to this country and are a huge drain on the welfare and benefits system, not to mention the prison system. I see this government have announced an illegal migrant amnesty in which they claim 60,000 illegals, regardless of background or criminal records, will be given leave to remain in this country, and if the government are quoting 60,000, you can bet the true figure will be a damned sight higher, and they will all be pushed to the front of the housing queue as tax payer funded interpreters coach them through the benefits system so they can claim every benefit going. With Reform UK becoming ever more popular and this government cosying up the EU you can bet Reform and Farage will make immigration a massive issue for the next election and rightly so, and people will vote Reform because they're sick of being lied to. You claim we need immigrants, I say we cant afford them. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 17, 2024 13:16:09 GMT
Andrew, I can sum it up in one word, 'Immigration'. The Tories lost support of their core voters largely because of immigration. Every Tory PM since 2010 has promised to cut immigration, and they said that because they it was what the voters wanted, yet under every PM immigration went up. Hence the fall of the Tories and the rise of Reform UK. I think it is a bit harsh to refer to all migrants as immigrants when the vast majority are asylum seekers i.e. outside of any normal immigration and emigration system. They are a problem in their own sense. They are not asylum seekers, they are criminals. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 17, 2024 14:14:03 GMT
That may have been true 50 years ago. Those parties have now moved absurdly far to the left, leaving most of the population occupying the centre (a centre you call the extremist right) Its words and attitudes that decide what a Rightist or a Leftist is. It seems that an underlying need to not be associated with the Far-Right is now allowing the hard-right to pretend they are the moderate centre-right. It just doesn't work that way. It's time to recognize when you are talking gobble-gook and take a step back to get a broader view The UK public have been politically moderate for decades. Their position/s hasn't changed much in the last three decades |
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Post by see2 on Oct 17, 2024 16:01:44 GMT
I think it is a bit harsh to refer to all migrants as immigrants when the vast majority are asylum seekers i.e. outside of any normal immigration and emigration system. They are a problem in their own sense. They are not asylum seekers, they are criminals. You may be right but proving it is something else. As it stands many of them claim to be asylum seekers. |
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Post by see2 on Oct 17, 2024 16:10:09 GMT
Its words and attitudes that decide what a Rightist or a Leftist is. It seems that an underlying need to not be associated with the Far-Right is now allowing the hard-right to pretend they are the moderate centre-right. It just doesn't work that way. It's time to recognize when you are talking gobble-gook and take a step back to get a broader view The UK public have been politically moderate for decades. Their position/s hasn't changed much in the last three decades You may be right, but Thatcher was not that long ago. Thatcher was Hard-Right and she did serious social and financial damage to this country. Be warned, the final outcome from a Rightist government in the UK will be painful and costly for far too many. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 17, 2024 16:19:22 GMT
It's time to recognize when you are talking gobble-gook and take a step back to get a broader view The UK public have been politically moderate for decades. Their position/s hasn't changed much in the last three decades Thatcher was Hard-Right and she did serious social and financial damage to this country. she was that "hard right" that she built more council housing in a year than Tony Blair's new labour managed in 13 years in office. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 17, 2024 16:22:36 GMT
He was, as barking as he is, he was more popular than stark raving mad Starmer. Corbyn was worst of a worst lot. Starmer is best of a worst lot. That's what enabled many Tories to move across. Starmer is even worse than Corbyn. Starmer disasterminded Labour's 2019 defeat. He should never have become leader. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 17, 2024 16:23:34 GMT
That's ^^ where the school of Rightist nonsense is learnt. LOLS "the school of rightist nonsense", honestly you do make me laugh. Do we even still have a right? |
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 17, 2024 16:27:18 GMT
LOLS "the school of rightist nonsense", honestly you do make me laugh. Do we even still have a right? Well as you know Reform UK are centre right, but I'm not sure about the Tories yet. We will have to wait and see who wins the leadership race and in which direction they take the party. |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 17, 2024 16:27:55 GMT
Yes, but they are but 5 MPs.
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Post by see2 on Oct 17, 2024 16:40:26 GMT
Thatcher was Hard-Right and she did serious social and financial damage to this country. she was that "hard right" that she built more council housing in a year than Tony Blair's new labour managed in 13 years in office. First off, Thatcher sold off Council Houses thus reducing the council housing stock. Council house building is funded by Local Councils. It takes Councils 30 years for that funding to be paid back. Meaning that Councils were hard pressed to meet other financial commitments. So while Thatcher was building Council houses, she was destroying the NHS and State education. Blair opted for Affordable Housing that could be either rented or mortgaged. For those who took out a mortgage they put themselves into the housing market. While Council house tenants could pay rent for decades and own nothing. The bottom line being that once again you come along with half of the story. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 17, 2024 16:51:49 GMT
Andrew, I can sum it up in one word, 'Immigration'. The Tories lost support of their core voters largely because of immigration. Every Tory PM since 2010 has promised to cut immigration, and they said that because they it was what the voters wanted, yet under every PM immigration went up. Hence the fall of the Tories and the rise of Reform UK. I think it is a bit harsh to refer to all migrants as immigrants when the vast majority are asylum seekers i.e. outside of any normal immigration and emigration system. They are a problem in their own sense. No they are not. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 17, 2024 16:56:08 GMT
she was that "hard right" that she built more council housing in a year than Tony Blair's new labour managed in 13 years in office. First off, Thatcher sold off Council Houses thus reducing the council housing stock. Council house building is funded by Local Councils. It takes Councils 30 years for that funding to be paid back. Meaning that Councils were hard pressed to meet other financial commitments. So while Thatcher was building Council houses, she was destroying the NHS and State education. Blair opted for Affordable Housing that could be either rented or mortgaged. For those who took out a mortgage they put themselves into the housing market. While Council house tenants could pay rent for decades and own nothing. The bottom line being that once again you come along with half of the story. John Major and Boris Johnson built more affordable housing than Tony Blair - New Labours record on housebuilding of any tenure is dire. |
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Post by thomas on Oct 17, 2024 19:09:05 GMT
Voters now more positive about Reform than Labour, poll finds
Some 29pc of those surveyed took a positive view of Nigel Farage’s party, compared to 27pc for Labour
Voters now feel more positive about Reform UK than they do about Labour, a poll has found.
A poll of 2,000 adults by JL Partners found 28 per cent had a very or quite positive view of Nigel Farage’s party, compared to 27 per cent who felt the same way about Labour.
Forty-one per cent had a very or quite negative opinion of Reform, compared to 47 per cent who felt very or quite negative about Labour.
It comes after a difficult first three months for Sir Keir Starmer in Downing Street in which his personal approval rating dropped significantly following a series of scandals.
archive.ph/EjQWx
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Post by thomas on Oct 17, 2024 19:27:41 GMT
she was that "hard right" that she built more council housing in a year than Tony Blair's new labour managed in 13 years in office. First off, Thatcher sold off Council Houses thus reducing the council housing stock. Council house building is funded by Local Councils. It takes Councils 30 years for that funding to be paid back. Meaning that Councils were hard pressed to meet other financial commitments. So while Thatcher was building Council houses, she was destroying the NHS and State education. Blair opted for Affordable Housing that could be either rented or mortgaged. For those who took out a mortgage they put themselves into the housing market. While Council house tenants could pay rent for decades and own nothing. The bottom line being that once again you come along with half of the story. Blair and new labour destroyed the uk housing sector , by not only not building houses as I said above , there were nearly 700 000 less social housing in the uk overall than when blair first took power , but he made buying and owning a house a luxury many could not afford. Why it’s Tony Blair’s fault if you can’t buy a house
Young Britons are the victims of the former PM’s bubble of perceived prosperity
The housing bubble that first popped up under Tony Blair makes not only buying a home a fantasy for the majority of under-40s, but is also pushing up rents, resulting in people living at home for longer, delaying a family, and, in the most obvious example that something is awry: giving up on work www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buying-selling/why-its-tony-blairs-fault-that-you-cannot-buy-a-house/ New Labour’s culpability for the housing crisis
22nd jan 2022 by lcfch, posted in council housing, new labour, right to buy
“At the end of New Labour’s 13 years in government there were 655,000 less ‘social homes’ than when they were first elected.” thelabourcampaignforcouncilhousing.org/2022/01/22/new-labours-culpability-for-the-housing-crisis/ How Blair broke Britain Iraq has overshadowed his litany of domestic failures
Today, Blair’s most overwhelming legacy, and the one that affects millions of ordinary people in Britain every day, is housing. In 1997, as Labour won their largest ever parliamentary majority, the average income was £15,000 a year while the average property cost £65,000. By 2007, as Blair left office, average pay had risen to £20,000 — but house prices had surged to an extraordinary £190,000. In other words, relative to wages, and under a Prime Minister who spoke relentlessly of expanding opportunity, the cost of housing had doubled. unherd.com/2022/04/how-blair-broke-britain/ |
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