|
|
Post by bancroft on Dec 9, 2022 14:31:45 GMT
The risk with coup attempts is civil war.
Normally associated with unstable governments yet more recently in the Middle East,Turkey, Syria and also now Ukraine.
I recall Hitler was imprisoned after the 1923 Munich putsch although don't think these chaps will be allowed out any time soon.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2022 14:51:56 GMT
Hardly condemn sums it up. Then one could go on and ask people to condemn all sorts of things. I do not need to condemn drug dealers, rapists, thieves and vagabonds as part of a discussion as we know what they are from their own actions. In this case currently we know not what the plot was or indeed if anyone is actually guilty of any heinous crime yet. I believe it's more to do with demanding conformity to their views, like taking a vow of allegiance to some group or totalitarian regime. If you don't spend the next several pages condemning the things they insist on being openly condemned there's an opportunity to undermine your character with all sorts of accusations, like supporting terrorism. At the end of the day one cannot have a closed mind and expect objectivity to work. You cannot submit to their demands and you will have to accept that you will be smeared. It doesn't really matter. They'll just be this cult (the followers) wagging their fists, but there's also those who find your posts interesting and won't come to such daft conclusions. I find much of what you say agreeable, and it would be somewhat moronic to allow somebody else to intimidate and cloud that judgement with any indoctrination which suggests a thought-crime has taken place.
|
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 9, 2022 15:02:27 GMT
Then one could go on and ask people to condemn all sorts of things. I do not need to condemn drug dealers, rapists, thieves and vagabonds as part of a discussion as we know what they are from their own actions. In this case currently we know not what the plot was or indeed if anyone is actually guilty of any heinous crime yet. I believe it's more to do with demanding conformity to their views, like taking a vow of allegiance to some group or totalitarian regime. If you don't spend the next several pages condemning the things they insist on being openly condemned there's an opportunity to undermine your character with all sorts of accusations, like supporting terrorism. At the end of the day one cannot have a closed mind and expect objectivity to work. You cannot submit to their demands and you will have to accept that you will be smeared. It doesn't really matter. They'll just be this cult (the followers) wagging their fists, but there's also those who find your posts interesting and won't come to such daft conclusions. I find much of what you say agreeable, and it would be somewhat moronic to allow somebody else to intimidate and cloud that judgement with any indoctrination which suggests a thought-crime has taken place.
Thank you. I think we all now realise how the game is played and that rules are set that are nothing to do with legality and everything to do with the left trying to define the acceptable parameters that they alone are allowed to set. Although the internet has been a boon to many it is also a means for them to close and sanction those who transgress those rules |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Dec 9, 2022 16:58:33 GMT
I believe it's more to do with demanding conformity to their views, like taking a vow of allegiance to some group or totalitarian regime. If you don't spend the next several pages condemning the things they insist on being openly condemned there's an opportunity to undermine your character with all sorts of accusations, like supporting terrorism.
Wrong right from the get-go. You make it sound like Sandy was called-out for something he didn't do (not spending pages condemning the coup). The opposite is true. He was called-out for what he did do: that is, objectively supporting the German Qanon conspiracy theorists. Intentionally or otherwise, he gave the impression that he believed that such a coup was reasonable in the circumstances Germany finds itself. So, it wasn't his inactivity or passivity that started this, but a positive statement made by him that a reasonable reader would have understood as an argument in mitigation of their actions. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 9, 2022 17:36:04 GMT
I believe it's more to do with demanding conformity to their views, like taking a vow of allegiance to some group or totalitarian regime. If you don't spend the next several pages condemning the things they insist on being openly condemned there's an opportunity to undermine your character with all sorts of accusations, like supporting terrorism.
Wrong right from the get-go. You make it sound like Sandy was called-out for something he didn't do (not spending pages condemning the coup). The opposite is true. He was called-out for what he did do: that is, objectively supporting the German Qanon conspiracy theorists. Intentionally or otherwise, he gave the impression that he believed that such a coup was reasonable in the circumstances Germany finds itself. So, it wasn't his inactivity or passivity that started this, but a positive statement made by him that a reasonable reader would have understood as an argument in mitigation of their actions. You inferred that from what I said but then as in so many things you were wrong. Your subjective opinion is that I gave support whereas I only asked why did it take them so long as I assumed, and I was clearly mistaken, that anyone with a grip on what was happening in Europe would know that the consensus upon which the West depends is being fast eroded. Germans are no different from many in that they are increasingly dissatisfied with their governments and this is noted with Germany and Austria slipping many places in the happiness Index. Merkel managed to weather the storm of the over 1 million allowed to walk in but that was won on the promise of strict deportations and they never materialised Considering the problems at large in Germany certainly all in the past few years and the effects of the large influx in many areas of society and the legal case as regards the AfD was for many the last straw. So given all the circumstances of German politics and society it is a pertinent question to ask. Why did it take them so long. The most worrying thing is that in the UK very similar dissatisfaction is coming to a head with a government partly believed to be imposed and a known soft touch party waiting in the wings. The three most important things. Consensus, Consensus, Consensus. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Dec 9, 2022 17:41:41 GMT
Wrong right from the get-go. You make it sound like Sandy was called-out for something he didn't do (not spending pages condemning the coup). The opposite is true. He was called-out for what he did do: that is, objectively supporting the German Qanon conspiracy theorists. Intentionally or otherwise, he gave the impression that he believed that such a coup was reasonable in the circumstances Germany finds itself. So, it wasn't his inactivity or passivity that started this, but a positive statement made by him that a reasonable reader would have understood as an argument in mitigation of their actions. You inferred that from what I said but then as in so many things you were wrong. Your subjective opinion is that I gave support whereas I only asked why did it take them so long as I assumed, and I was clearly mistaken, that anyone with a grip on what was happening in Europe would know that the consensus upon which the West depends is being fast eroded. Germans are no different from many in that they are increasingly dissatisfied with their governments and this is noted with Germany and Austria slipping many places in the happiness Index. Merkel managed to weather the storm of the over 1 million allowed to walk in but that was won on the promise of strict deportations and they never materialised Considering the problems at large in Germany certainly all in the past few years and the effects of the large influx in many areas of society and the legal case as regards the AfD was for many the last straw. So given all the circumstances of German politics and society it is a pertinent question to ask. Why did it take them so long. The most worrying thing is that in the UK very similar dissatisfaction is coming to a head with a government partly believed to be imposed and a known soft touch party waiting in the wings. The three most important things. Consensus, Consensus, Consensus. On the most charitable reading possible, your statement was mitigation for their actions. 'M'Lud, my client is guilty but we ask the court to take all the circumstances into account in sentencing.' As I said, that's the most charitable reading. B4 was wrong when he stated that you were criticised for your inactivity. Quite the opposite is true. Whether it was your intention or not, you gave the impression that you were sympathetic to these people. You were called out for that. Get over it. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 9, 2022 18:13:53 GMT
You inferred that from what I said but then as in so many things you were wrong. Your subjective opinion is that I gave support whereas I only asked why did it take them so long as I assumed, and I was clearly mistaken, that anyone with a grip on what was happening in Europe would know that the consensus upon which the West depends is being fast eroded. Germans are no different from many in that they are increasingly dissatisfied with their governments and this is noted with Germany and Austria slipping many places in the happiness Index. Merkel managed to weather the storm of the over 1 million allowed to walk in but that was won on the promise of strict deportations and they never materialised Considering the problems at large in Germany certainly all in the past few years and the effects of the large influx in many areas of society and the legal case as regards the AfD was for many the last straw. So given all the circumstances of German politics and society it is a pertinent question to ask. Why did it take them so long. The most worrying thing is that in the UK very similar dissatisfaction is coming to a head with a government partly believed to be imposed and a known soft touch party waiting in the wings. The three most important things. Consensus, Consensus, Consensus. On the most charitable reading possible, your statement was mitigation for their actions. 'M'Lud, my client is guilty but we ask the court to take all the circumstances into account in sentencing.' As I said, that's the most charitable reading. B4 was wrong when he stated that you were criticised for your inactivity. Quite the opposite is true. Whether it was your intention or not, you gave the impression that you were sympathetic to these people. You were called out for that. Get over it. So let us just check what I said I suppose the question is why did it takes so long for people to consider a coup. The established political parties have been actively destroying their countries' cultures and demographics and voting for change does not bring about change That clearly indicates understanding of why. Is understanding now in your book, and others seemingly, an indication for support for the action under discussion? |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Dec 9, 2022 18:19:16 GMT
Yes, your words created the impression that you believe their actions to have been reasonable. That may not have been your intention, but that was the only interpretation a reasonable reader could have put on them.
And B4's defence doesn't even get off the ground, because he claimed you were being criticised for something you didn't do, when the opposite is true.
|
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 9, 2022 18:32:56 GMT
Yes, your words created the impression that you believe their actions to have been reasonable. That may not have been your intention, but that was the only interpretation a reasonable reader could have put on them. And B4's defence doesn't even get off the ground, because he claimed you were being criticised for something you didn't do, when the opposite is true. So if that is the case then one third of British Muslims support the actions taken in the Charlie Hebdo killings. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Dec 9, 2022 18:38:19 GMT
Yes, your words created the impression that you believe their actions to have been reasonable. That may not have been your intention, but that was the only interpretation a reasonable reader could have put on them. And B4's defence doesn't even get off the ground, because he claimed you were being criticised for something you didn't do, when the opposite is true. So if that is the case then one third of British Muslims support the actions taken in the Charlie Hebdo killings. If one third of British Muslims have made statements which a reasonable person on an objective reading of their words would interpret as being in support of the Charlie Hebdo killings, those British Muslims have no cause for complaint if reasonable people interpret their words in that way. Just as you have no grounds for complaint in this case. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Dec 9, 2022 18:42:31 GMT
Had that coup been successful though, it would have been absolute chaos for the EU, Germany is their biggest member state. From what I remember of the treaties, the EU have no means of suspending a member or overturning a coup. I suppose the question is why did it takes so long for people to consider a coup. The established political parties have been actively destroying their countries' cultures and demographics and voting for change does not bring about change How very true, I've often said that people are slow to anger but anger they will. But I'm begining to wonder tbh. |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Dec 9, 2022 18:46:22 GMT
I suppose the question is why did it takes so long for people to consider a coup. The established political parties have been actively destroying their countries' cultures and demographics and voting for change does not bring about change How very true, I've often said that people are slow to anger but anger they will. But I'm begining to wonder tbh. Yes, anger is building about the corrupt referendum. Polls show this again and again. |
|
|
|
Post by sandypine on Dec 9, 2022 18:48:37 GMT
So if that is the case then one third of British Muslims support the actions taken in the Charlie Hebdo killings. If one third of British Muslims have made statements which a reasonable person on an objective reading of their words would interpret as being in support of the Charlie Hebdo killings, those British Muslims have no cause for complaint if reasonable people interpret their words in that way. Just as you have no grounds for complaint in this case. I shall bear your words in mind. |
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Dec 9, 2022 18:50:03 GMT
How very true, I've often said that people are slow to anger but anger they will. But I'm begining to wonder tbh. Yes, anger is building about the corrupt referendum. Polls show this again and again. Corrupt referendum! Where? When? What country are we talking about? |
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Dec 9, 2022 18:51:18 GMT
If one third of British Muslims have made statements which a reasonable person on an objective reading of their words would interpret as being in support of the Charlie Hebdo killings, those British Muslims have no cause for complaint if reasonable people interpret their words in that way. Just as you have no grounds for complaint in this case. I shall bear your words in mind. No problem. My workshops on how not to give the impression you're a fascist sympathiser are available by appointment. |
|
