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Post by Orac on Oct 12, 2024 9:54:16 GMT
The 'adversarial system' is the way you avoid having a dictatorship
an explicitly non adversarial system just means you are not allowed to argue - ie a dictatorship
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Post by Bentley on Oct 12, 2024 10:14:15 GMT
Girls dress quite smartly in UK offices l. I doubt that they need or want to dress as if they going out clubbing. I don’t see how it would make them any happier either. They fed the robots in one of the videos . They didn’t seem any happier than UK workers . It was very clear to me there was no dress code in that office. It's just something that surprised me and that is why I mentioned it. I was like you and thought the same until actually watching it. It's just another thing you learn if you look in places which are not contrived News.
I've also checked Alibaba's offices. They have a giant mural on the wall in the style of the Bayeux Tapestry with cartoon figures of all the famous tech entrepreneurs, like jobs, Gates etc. Those are very strange offices indeed because they are run by Jack Ma (very strange man).
In that office . That doesn’t it is the norm in China and/ or that it wasn’t set up. It doesn't mean that wearing inappropriate clothing ie clothes more appropriate for ‘ clubbing ‘ indicates that the workers are happier than in the UK. I would say that more casual attire might be more of an indication. I worked in a factory that had a large fishpond and an old printing press in the reception. It wasn’t any happier working there than anywhere else. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 12, 2024 10:14:50 GMT
The 'adversarial system' is the way you avoid having a dictatorship an explicitly non adversarial system just means you are not allowed to argue - ie a dictatorship Which was exactly my point. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 12, 2024 10:35:46 GMT
The 'adversarial system' is the way you avoid having a dictatorship an explicitly non adversarial system just means you are not allowed to argue - ie a dictatorship Which was exactly my point. Sorry. Didn't mean to steal your thunder. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 12, 2024 10:44:21 GMT
Which was exactly my point. Sorry. Didn't mean to steal your thunder. You didn’t do that . I was quite pleased that someone else said it . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 12, 2024 10:51:34 GMT
It was very clear to me there was no dress code in that office. It's just something that surprised me and that is why I mentioned it. I was like you and thought the same until actually watching it. It's just another thing you learn if you look in places which are not contrived News.
I've also checked Alibaba's offices. They have a giant mural on the wall in the style of the Bayeux Tapestry with cartoon figures of all the famous tech entrepreneurs, like jobs, Gates etc. Those are very strange offices indeed because they are run by Jack Ma (very strange man).
In that office . That doesn’t it is the norm in China and/ or that it wasn’t set up. It doesn't mean that wearing inappropriate clothing ie clothes more appropriate for ‘ clubbing ‘ indicates that the workers are happier than in the UK. I would say that more casual attire might be more of an indication. I worked in a factory that had a large fishpond and an old printing press in the reception. It wasn’t any happier working there than anywhere else. There isn't a norm in China. There is a saying over there that Beijing is the past, Shanghai is the present and Shenzhen is the future. Each city tends to have its own themes, so this is the thing about China that people are often confused about. You have one government, and what you say about liking it or lumping it is not really the case, because what you can do is move to the place in China that most suits your personal tastes.
China itself is going through massive transformations. The old China is the huge manual textile factories, often located in Hong Kong because Hong Kong was the first to see the money, and they were most connected to Western markets, as Hong Kong was an east meets West trading zone. These factories are not fastly going bankrupt. You get a sort of post-industrial feel to some of that area with a lot of older buildings in poor repair. Shenzhen is the complete opposite where most of the infrastructure is brand spanking new, and as they will tell you, this is the future China. The offices there are very modern, have much greenery going on in them as well with your rooftop gardens and other cool feature. There are other up and coming cities as well like Chongqing where they are making it into an "smart city" as in the whole city is computerised, and Wuhan is another which is up and coming. However, there are areas where you would be if you were in the motor mechanic trade, like the Detroit of America and other areas that look like they never saw any revolution at all and remain as they have for thousands of years. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 12, 2024 11:04:32 GMT
It's the Baron's absolute faith in the purity of the motives of the Chinese Communist Party, and in the perfected state of the socio-economic system they have created, that I find to be the only medieval aspect to this discussion.
He reminds me of the itinerant preachers who would go around medieval communities peddling Papal indulgences guaranteeing an eternity in heaven if you would just recant your sins and add a little something to the Papal coffers. In their case, they drew on the scriptures to describe their vision of the Heavenly rewards to come to those who conform; in his, it's the Tubes.
It's quite baffling why anyone would want to waste their time arguing with such true believers, especially when their arguments are based on officially-approved ephemera and not personal experience or even expert opinion.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 12, 2024 11:05:34 GMT
The 'adversarial system' is the way you avoid having a dictatorship an explicitly non adversarial system just means you are not allowed to argue - ie a dictatorship Are you sure you are not stuck in a circular definition? People often say China is a dictatorship, as they define a dictatorship as a government system that does not employ a representative parliamentary democracy as we practice in Britain since we got it off the Greeks. A democracy literally means rule of the people, as in demos is the people and kratos means rule. The way China's system works is the primacy of the people is built into their constitution.
What the adversarial system appears to me to be is a like fighting for peace. The fighting is causing untold economic and social harm and is not really what the people need. We bash back and forth between one dictatorship and the other, and this uncertainty and forced change is a hit on our economy. Like HS 2: 1 government wants it and the other does not.
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Post by Bentley on Oct 12, 2024 11:06:53 GMT
In that office . That doesn’t it is the norm in China and/ or that it wasn’t set up. It doesn't mean that wearing inappropriate clothing ie clothes more appropriate for ‘ clubbing ‘ indicates that the workers are happier than in the UK. I would say that more casual attire might be more of an indication. I worked in a factory that had a large fishpond and an old printing press in the reception. It wasn’t any happier working there than anywhere else. There isn't a norm in China. There is a saying over there that Beijing is the past, Shanghai is the present and Shenzhen is the future. Each city tends to have its own themes, so this is the thing about China that people are often confused about. You have one government, and what you say about liking it or lumping it is not really the case, because what you can do is move to the place in China that most suits your personal tastes.
China itself is going through massive transformations. The old China is the huge manual textile factories, often located in Hong Kong because Hong Kong was the first to see the money, and they were most connected to Western markets, as Hong Kong was an east meets West trading zone. These factories are not fastly going bankrupt. You get a sort of post-industrial feel to some of that area with a lot of older buildings in poor repair. Shenzhen is the complete opposite where most of the infrastructure is brand spanking new, and as they will tell you, this is the future China. The offices there are very modern, have much greenery going on in them as well with your rooftop gardens and other cool feature. There are other up and coming cities as well like Chongqing where they are making it into an "smart city" as in the whole city is computerised, and Wuhan is another which is up and coming. However, there are areas where you would be if you were in the motor mechanic trade, like the Detroit of America and other areas that look like they never saw any revolution at all and remain as they have for thousands of years. If there isn’t a norm in China then the notion of no dress code isn’t a general rule . By your own admission this might be an anomaly . |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 12, 2024 11:18:18 GMT
It's the Baron's absolute faith in the purity of the motives of the Chinese Communist Party, and in the perfected state of the socio-economic system they have created, that I find to be the only medieval aspect to this discussion. He reminds me of the itinerant preachers who would go around medieval communities peddling Papal indulgences guaranteeing an eternity in heaven if you would just recant your sins and add a little something to the Papal coffers. In their case, they drew on the scriptures to describe their vision of the Heavenly rewards to come to those who conform; in his, it's the Tubes. It's quite baffling why anyone would want to waste their time arguing with such true believers, especially when their arguments are based on officially-approved ephemera and not personal experience or even expert opinion. Expert opinion lol!
Yes I've read that. Sunday Times, The Economist, FT, BBC, Oxford scholars. Most appear to have an agenda, as in paid propagandists.
If you don't know, i'll explain that Medieval academia was very strongly based on Greek classical texts. It's the combination of that and Christianity. The problem though was the Greeks were pagan and if you read the bible you would see the pagan goes straight to hell, no £200 collection.
I mean, you really want to argue because your mode of operation is adversarial. It's so deeply ingrained in your upbringing that it is hard to see you have been brainwashed by it without proof. You need to read an Edward de Bono book. Is a non-adversarial system possible without creating a Cambodia?
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Post by Red Rackham on Oct 12, 2024 11:22:11 GMT
China is booming because it's a coal based economy. It aint rocket science.
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Post by Orac on Oct 12, 2024 11:23:55 GMT
The 'adversarial system' is the way you avoid having a dictatorship an explicitly non adversarial system just means you are not allowed to argue - ie a dictatorship Are you sure you are not stuck in a circular definition? People often say China is a dictatorship, as they define a dictatorship as a government system that does not employ a representative parliamentary democracy as we practice in Britain since we got it off the Greeks. A democracy literally means rule of the people, as in demos is the people and kratos means rule. The way China's system works is the primacy of the people is built into their constitution.
What the adversarial system appears to me to be is a like fighting for peace. The fighting is causing untold economic and social harm and is not really what the people need. We bash back and forth between one dictatorship and the other, and this uncertainty and forced change is a hit on our economy. Like HS 2: 1 government wants it and the other does not.
Hold on one moment. I'm not talking specifically about China or anywhere else. My point is simply one of definition - ie a very concise and efficient definition of a dictatorship is a social order in which disagreement is not allowed. It seems that it is not me who is calling China a dictatorship, it is indirectly yourself. Also, i made no claims about the value of dictatorship. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Oct 12, 2024 11:24:20 GMT
There isn't a norm in China. There is a saying over there that Beijing is the past, Shanghai is the present and Shenzhen is the future. Each city tends to have its own themes, so this is the thing about China that people are often confused about. You have one government, and what you say about liking it or lumping it is not really the case, because what you can do is move to the place in China that most suits your personal tastes.
China itself is going through massive transformations. The old China is the huge manual textile factories, often located in Hong Kong because Hong Kong was the first to see the money, and they were most connected to Western markets, as Hong Kong was an east meets West trading zone. These factories are not fastly going bankrupt. You get a sort of post-industrial feel to some of that area with a lot of older buildings in poor repair. Shenzhen is the complete opposite where most of the infrastructure is brand spanking new, and as they will tell you, this is the future China. The offices there are very modern, have much greenery going on in them as well with your rooftop gardens and other cool feature. There are other up and coming cities as well like Chongqing where they are making it into an "smart city" as in the whole city is computerised, and Wuhan is another which is up and coming. However, there are areas where you would be if you were in the motor mechanic trade, like the Detroit of America and other areas that look like they never saw any revolution at all and remain as they have for thousands of years. If there isn’t a norm in China then the notion of no dress code isn’t a general rule . By your own admission this might be an anomaly . Quite so. I've seen other factories where every worker is in a uniform that looks like Mao's China, with the little Chinese caps and all. My expereicnes are more of the modern China and do a lot of business with Shenzhen in particular. It's probably one of the best places to live, but is known to be one of the msot expensive as well. I've seen Oxford postgrads there, which kind of shows you the wages can't be all that bad since an Oxford post grad stem can walk into any tech job anywhere in the world. They pay good money for brains. You brain is your wage level negotiator! |
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Post by Vinny on Oct 12, 2024 11:25:03 GMT
China is booming because it's a coal based economy. It aint rocket science. And because they have people working for slave wages. Nobody can compete with slave wages. They can't unionise because they'd be imprisoned or killed. It's a dictatorship. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 12, 2024 11:29:54 GMT
If there isn’t a norm in China then the notion of no dress code isn’t a general rule . By your own admission this might be an anomaly . Quite so. I've seen other factories where every worker is in a uniform that looks like Mao's China, with the little Chinese caps and all. My expereicnes are more of the modern China and do a lot of business with Shenzhen in particular. It's probably one of the best places to live, but is known to be one of the msot expensive as well. I've seen Oxford postgrads there, which kind of shows you the wages can't be all that bad since an Oxford post grad stem can walk into any tech job anywhere in the world. They pay good money for brains. You brain is your wage level negotiator! The wages of an Oxford grad might not reflect the wages of a Chinese factory worker . I’ve been to Shenzen . Have you ? |
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